A Ninja without Throwing...

[Akujima]

A Ninja without Throwing might as well be called "Fighter" or "Assassin".

What I don't fully understand is why so many people want to get rid of a key feature ability and replace it with even MORE Dual Wield (NIN already has the fastest Dual Wield btw).

Other than the current Final Fantasy, please explain to me in which part of the series did Ninja's not have throwing? And which FF was throwing not actually quite useful? Because I clearly remember in FF 6 and FF tactics that throwing did/helped alot more than just regular katana swings all the time.

Keep Throwing. Keep Sange. Improve them. Don't get rid of them and just make Ninja some kind of melee happy "Kraken club" wannabe job.

Done.

[Karbuncle]

In my opinion.

i think its because due to NIN's natural DPS thanks to Haste and Dual Wield, The only way to make the throwing/Sange useful would be to give us an Easy Supply of throwing weapons with DMG:200+ Delay:~100 on them (Im exaggerating a little) in order for it to not just nerf NIN's DPS. Because of the Delay in throwing and between continuation of your attacks.

The only way to improve Throwing, Sange, etc, Would be to Break throwing an unbelievable amount, an amount so broken there is just no way SE will implement it.

Its how NIN is in this game, rather we like it or not :|

If you wanna role-play a Shuriken Thrower go look up "Ninja Gaiden", Its a great game for that kind of thing.

Its not that NIN's wouldn't Want Throwing, Or that it doesn't Fit, its just it would be too hard to make it useful in FFXI, because the only ways to do it would be a Nerf to Dual Wield, or an Ungodly buff to All Things related to Throwing, Including an Easy-Steady Supply of Super-High Damage Low-Delay Shuriken.

[Akujima]

If you wanna role-play a Shuriken Thrower go look up "Ninja Gaiden", Its a great game for that kind of thing.

What's funny about this, is that you're telling me to go play a platform game, instead of realizing that I want to role-play, in a role-playing game.

When did FF not become an RPG? lol...

It can be done, yes nerf dual wield, nerf other things, atm Ninja is a little overpowered actually. Bring some balance into the game, get more flying mobs, get more bosses where backing off or retreating from it, is actually a smart thing to do.

But most of all, answer this one question: How can a Ninja, be a Ninja without throwing?

FF is and always will be an RPG.

[Karbuncle]

It was a joke implying "If you wanna play a game where you get to be a Ninja throwing shurikens, ninja Gaiden is great for that". Not implying it ... You know... Nevermind.

So, You think Nerfing Dual Wield and NIN as a job is an acceptable Solution to the game just so you RP like a Real ninja and Toss shurikens?

Also, In order to make "backing off" = "using Shuriken", You'd also have to adjust the Sweet spot of Throwing Items, Which happen to be Melee Range. meaning if you're backing off Your Shuriken Damage will go to Sh*t Quick :|

I just don't think the Solution is Ever a nerf. Even if NIN Gets a Massive awesome Shuriken and Throwing is Hot again, now we "Range" better than RNG, the job designed to Range.

[Akujima]

So, You think Nerfing Dual Wield and NIN as a job is an acceptable Solution to the game just so you RP like a Real ninja and Toss shurikens?

Whats wrong with RP'ing in an RPG? Still waiting for a valid answer to that.
And you seem to think I'm saying to nerf dual wield sooo bad that it's pointless to melee anymore. Which is not my intention at all.

Also, In order to make "backing off" = "using Shuriken", You'd also have to adjust the Sweet spot of Throwing Items, Which happen to be Melee Range. meaning if you're backing off Your Shuriken Damage will go to Sh*t Quick :|

I know this, thats why I'm voting for an improvement to the throwing system.

And then again the final extremist answer in saying that RNG is going to be obsolete if NIN gets ranged attacks. It's just another example of favoritism to who can do the biggest, better, fastest amount of damage.

...Smash that mob, SMASH that mob dead! YEA! Woooooowooooo. Dude did you see that?! I parse'd that $#!%, I got 10,500 and that gimp warrior only got 9200 yo!... yo dog this $#% is tight. All I had to do was stand in 1 spot, but that warrior was struggling yo!....

Totally stripping the RP out of RPG, and just pushing FFXI on a downward slope into some sort of competitive style game, that just resembles modern first person shooters.

Done.

[Karbuncle]

Okay, I'm trying my best to explain to you that the idea of making Throwing Viable just isn't sensible inside FFXI. also did you just happen to overlook the part where i said "its not that people wouldn't like throwing on NIN, Its just that making it useful would require unrealistic buffs"

Its just not possible without Nerfing, or buffing Throwing to the point it would outshine RNG (due to NINs naturally high DPS, the amount of DMG/Delay required on a shuriken would have to outweigh the Damage lost during the throwing animaiton and delay after throwing before an attack round can take place)

Whats wrong with RP'ing in an RPG? Still waiting for a valid answer to that.
And you seem to think I'm saying to nerf dual wield sooo bad that it's pointless to melee anymore. Which is not my intention at all.

There is nothing wrong with RP'ing in an RPG, that isn't a problem, Its the fact not everyone wants to RP, You're idea would be "Nerf Ninja back to 2005 so i can RP with my Shuriken" (Speaking on your "We should nerf Dual wield" bit on your second post) which is not the solution. Its never a solution to NERF an aspect of a job just to enjoy the other. Nothing is stopping you from stocking up on shuriken and tossing them, You seem to not give a damn about what people think when it comes to different opinions than yours, so why care if they call you gimp for throwing shuriken?

I know this, thats why I'm voting for an improvement to the throwing system.

And then again the final extremist answer in saying that RNG is going to be obsolete if NIN gets ranged attacks. It's just another example of favoritism to who can do the biggest, better, fastest amount of damage.

And the Denial-ist answer is "I'm right its possible i just don't know how yet! So i'll continue to belittle anyone who objects my opinion, While offering no solutions outside nerfing!"

I'm sorry if you can't seem to understand the only way to make throwing good for NIN would be to buff it to the point it where it would not ruin the DPS of a NIN at melee range, to take it out and throw it. and the required DMG/delay/etc of that would be more powerful than what RNG has. Making RNG fall behind NIN in terms of ranged Damage wouldnt be a good idea either though, neither is Nerfing NIN.

...Smash that mob, SMASH that mob dead! YEA! Woooooowooooo. Dude did you see that?! I parse'd that $#!%, I got 10,500 and that gimp warrior only got 9200 yo!... yo dog this $#% is tight. All I had to do was stand in 1 spot, but that warrior was struggling yo!....

Unfortunately thats how this game is designed.

would you rather be flipping off the Mobs back throwing shurikens 40 feet in the air while fighting off other Elite Ninjas with your 18-wielded Katanas at the speed of light? maybe doing some backflips with Sephiroth?

Totally stripping the RP out of RPG, and just pushing FFXI on a downward slope into some sort of competitive style game, that just resembles modern first person shooters.

Done.

Again, just because it doesn't have every played out JRPG Cliche mashed into it, Doesn't mean its not an RPG. it still has the core elements of an RPG, just not the ones you want.

Really, It would be nice if NIN could get a great throwing weapon, and it could be useful and available. But I don't see it happening without literally a complete overhaul of the job, or throwing damage. And if they don't have enough time to Shorted Chat log redundancies, how would they have the time for this?

Really, Its not that i hate the idea, Its just i don't see it ever realistically happening.

[Dooom]

***, I hit "like" instead of "reply with quote".

It's just another example of favoritism to who can do the biggest, better, fastest amount of damage.

...Smash that mob, SMASH that mob dead! YEA! Woooooowooooo. Dude did you see that?! I parse'd that $#!%, I got 10,500 and that gimp warrior only got 9200 yo!... yo dog this $#% is tight. All I had to do was stand in 1 spot, but that warrior was struggling yo!....

You're making fun of people who act like damage is everything, yet at the same time asking for an increase in the damage of the way you want to play, and a nerf for people who want to play in another way. Doesn't this strike you as hypocritical at all?

Hint: if you answered "no", you're wrong.

If you want to role-play, fine. Go throw your shuriken. Just don't expect everyone else to want to do the same, or ask that people not doing so be nerfed.

[Akujima]

Okay...

Something, Something, Something...

Done.

So that means if a COR did more ranged dmg than a RNG, you would invite only COR's then? So that means if a WAR did more dmg than a DRK, you would invite only WAR's then? I'm tired of these replies where its just an endless struggle of opinionated posts, battling it out to see who's next idea makes it into the game.

Go ahead and bypass everything about the RP element of the Ninja Job, and just disregard any of the old timers, who've realized that the FF series is losing its integrity in the never-ending attempt, to appeal to the mass hysteria of casual gamers. "Make everything easier!" Yea, that's the solution right?

But, wait. What about hard earned, thoughtful "chess-like" in depth battle tactics, where we can feel a sense of accomplishment and teamwork at the end of all our fun adventures?

No, no, no! That's not easy enough!

Rather let's just continue the progression of WS Dmg+ merits for NIN, Katana skill A+ and Dual Wield+25, so that our fellow super-hero's can swing their arms so fast they look like a hummingbird on cocaine.

BOOM! Yea man, I freaken did 5000 with a Blade: Hi !!! Damn I feel special and unique now, and everyone else envies me.

Anyways, you get the picture. I simply offer an idea to improve upon an RP element, rather than push it aside, just so that all these number crunchers can continue to measure the size of each others Johnsons.

Anyways, whatever SE does is ultimately up to them.

[Karbuncle]

And I'm the Extremist. I wasn't attempting to make this a "YOUR DUMB" "NO YOUR DUMB" Argument.

[Afrohatch]

Ninjas are supposed to be silent too, you're not making a good example for other RP'ing ninjas