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  1. #1
    Player draconus's Avatar
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    Aug 2013
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    US
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    31
    Character
    Duranthis
    World
    Cerberus
    Main Class
    THF Lv 99

    New to Voidwatch, trying to get Celaenos Cloth and I'm 0/70+ and counting.

    Is the drop rate on this just impossible? Because I find this situation extremely frustrating to the point I don't see any reason to continue this anymore. I'm just going to leave the reforging at 109 and say to hell with attempting 119 because either the drop rate is non-existant if I try to solo. I've gotten 3 of the rare/ex guns but not a single Celaenos cloth (unless it's glitched as Raxa!?!?) even if I get multiple weakness triggers.

    I don't have time to play this game for eternity for one single item needed. The cost is pretty terrible and by the time I actually get enough money to purchase whatever is available on the server, someone else buys it, or there is none available.

    Why not just make those particular items for reforging equipment a Records of Eminence >> Content >> Voidwatch >> Defeat: Celaenos xx times for Celaenos Cloth reward so that way I can actually get the item that I need and actually accomplish something instead of banging my head against this dog awful timesink wall? It forces the prices down since it is more accessible to achieve, and more people can do it themselves.

    I have work, I have other games I want to play, and I have other things to do in my life as well. It shouldn't take months years to receive only one material drop (if any) to reforge one piece of equipment because the drop ratio, and weakness trigger requirements are so random and ridiculous that it can only be accomplished by 12+ people when everyone else has moved on to new content (again) and have no reason to assist those left behind.

    I'm about to drop FFXI because there is another title coming out in a few days that I'll have to re-allocate my subscription money towards that instead of this as I find it impossible to accomplish something simple again that was made unnecessarily over complicated by sadistic (or just plain ignorant) programmers. I prefer more fun over frustration, because games are supposed to be entertaining, until someone forgets the entertainment part and it just becomes an annoyance to "play".

    This is ANNOYING.
    (0)

  2. #2
    Player Halley's Avatar
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    Aug 2017
    Posts
    232
    Character
    Zeiry
    World
    Asura
    Main Class
    THF Lv 99
    Welcome to mmos.

    The drop rate for that cloth is in the 1% range.

    I've done THOUSANDS and seen maybe 5.
    (0)

  3. #3
    Player Nyarlko's Avatar
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    Nov 2015
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    1,523
    Character
    Nyarlko
    World
    Asura
    Main Class
    BST Lv 99
    I actually agree with your suggestion OP. It would be very rage-quelling to know that even though the odds are against you normally, you will still be able to make your progres after 10-20x kills.

    Cost is high since supply obviously sucks due to the low base drop rate. You do have better odds at getting more good stuff by proc'ing, but you have to be aware that there are multiple proc types and that you want specific ones. For rare mats like the cloth, you are supposed to target red+blue lights. Red = quality, blue = quantity. Here's a link to the list: BGWiki Voidwatch page. Keep in mind that if you use the red/blue cells, then Treasure Hunter does absolutely nothing since it's counted in the same category and cells cap out that section. W/o cells, TH adds a whopping +1% per level tagged on the mob! -_-;; (Just use cells in other words.)

    Just like Abyssea, it helps to use horrible/cosmetic weapons and bring a melee who can use a lot of weapon types (war works nice for this), plus a blm. Yes, it means that you're not soloing anymore, and that you need to have at least one friend (or 2nd account) to pull it off, but it is far more reliable than smashing/spamming as fast as you can. VW is content that was designed for large parties, so it takes a bit of effort and practice to pull off efficiently when soloing.
    (0)
    “That is not dead which can eternal lie, And with strange aeons even death may die.”

  4. #4
    Player Vashkoda's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    58
    Character
    Vashkoda
    World
    Bismarck
    Main Class
    THF Lv 99
    Ironically, last month's login campaign allowed you to buy any of the Voidwatch t4 mat drops for 1500 points, so you could have gotten it that way. In fact, the ah on my server was flooded with them because that's what people spent their points on.

    Also, keep an eye out for the status of unlocked campaign territories on your server. If you have enough campaign medals to do the stronghold offense fights (Splitting Heirs, Plucking Wings, Cracking Shells), during the "returnee campaign" going on through the end of this month, you have a good chance to get VW mat drops as well (maybe 10-20% chance per fight? It's much higher than the drop rate from VW at any rate). I wouldn't bother with VW right now anyway since the 100% proc campaign just ended.
    (0)

  5. #5
    Player Sirmarki's Avatar
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    Dec 2013
    Posts
    855
    Character
    Sirmarki
    World
    Asura
    Main Class
    WHM Lv 99
    Quote Originally Posted by Vashkoda View Post
    Ironically, last month's login campaign allowed you to buy any of the Voidwatch t4 mat drops for 1500 points
    Think they were cheaper than that, 750 points?

    Still a lot around on AH, and seem to be very cheap at the moment 150k gil ~ (off the top of my head).
    (0)

  6. #6
    Player Halley's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2017
    Posts
    232
    Character
    Zeiry
    World
    Asura
    Main Class
    THF Lv 99
    They were in the 1500 category, which was 1/2 price for that special login (750)
    (0)

  7. #7
    Player draconus's Avatar
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    Aug 2013
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    US
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    31
    Character
    Duranthis
    World
    Cerberus
    Main Class
    THF Lv 99
    Ironically, last month's login campaign allowed you to buy any of the Voidwatch t4 mat drops for 1500 points, so you could have gotten it that way. In fact, the ah on my server was flooded with them because that's what people spent their points on.
    Yeah, I saw those last month, but I didn't need them at the time so I put the points towards something else. Plus I think the rotation takes a whole year if I'm correct, or every 6 months if we're lucky.

    But that is just for one item unless you have a ton of points saved up. Currently on my server the cloths are all sold out now. Who knows when another is going to be sold again.

    Considering how many of the mats are needed and how many different job class armor's that use VWNM material drops, making those drops consistent as rewards for RoE would be awesome.
    Let's say every 10 kills of that mob clears my previously gets you one of those materials. If any drop naturally per lights then that's fine and lessens the amount of times you have to fight the mob for that particular item. I've been spamming cells naturally and have been getting an stupid low weakness ratio, but VW was built for back when people could get a group to do things like abyssea, Unity on a regular basis.

    So the recommendation for SE FFXI devs, just add the reforge materials as a repeatable Records of Eminence >>> Content >>> Voidwatch >>> Subjugation: (VWNM name) and higher for each mob. I'd rather do 50 fights to get 5 materials instead of 300~1000+ fights for 1 material drop if that. It's already enough that I have to work on merit's to get Rem's chapters 6-10 with multiple fights, and the other materials as well.

    Currently at 100+ attempts on Celeanos and counting... have had 5 of the rare/ex guns, and 0 cloths... A friend did help for a bit on BLM for about 12 runs, not much difference from when I was soloing even though we did get more weakness triggers hit.
    (0)
    Last edited by draconus; 01-22-2018 at 02:03 PM.

  8. #8
    Player Nyarlko's Avatar
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    Nov 2015
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    1,523
    Character
    Nyarlko
    World
    Asura
    Main Class
    BST Lv 99
    10x kills per repeat is almost guaranteed to be far too high to be allowable from the devs' POV. Aim a tad lower. XD 20x feels grindy enough to be possible, 30x should be fine (and close to the actual drop rate I think.)

    Honestly, even though I hate to do so, I strongly suggest you focus elsewhere and come back the next time a VW campaign rolls around. Having capped base lights (cat1, 350%) by default saves an insane amount of time/effort/frustration. You still need cells and atmacites to fully cap @ 550%, but knowing for sure that you will get 5+ items and a better shot at the higher end items per run does tend to speed things up and takes a chunk out of the frustration this event can cause.

    With your more recent attempts, what were your red/blue lights at on avg after each kill?
    (0)
    “That is not dead which can eternal lie, And with strange aeons even death may die.”

  9. #9
    Player draconus's Avatar
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    Aug 2013
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    US
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    Character
    Duranthis
    World
    Cerberus
    Main Class
    THF Lv 99
    Quote Originally Posted by Nyarlko View Post
    10x kills per repeat is almost guaranteed to be far too high to be allowable from the devs' POV. Aim a tad lower. XD 20x feels grindy enough to be possible, 30x should be fine (and close to the actual drop rate I think.)

    Honestly, even though I hate to do so, I strongly suggest you focus elsewhere and come back the next time a VW campaign rolls around. Having capped base lights (cat1, 350%) by default saves an insane amount of time/effort/frustration. You still need cells and atmacites to fully cap @ 550%, but knowing for sure that you will get 5+ items and a better shot at the higher end items per run does tend to speed things up and takes a chunk out of the frustration this event can cause.

    With your more recent attempts, what were your red/blue lights at on avg after each kill?
    I think I'm now at 150 attempts now, I've gotten a total of 8 Phineus guns, and 0 clothes. I seem to average about 350-500 max lights soloing with trusts (and using cells) only if the weakness can be covered using Amchuchu (GS), Tenzen/Ayame (Katana), Semih(archer)/Najelith (Archer/dagger), D.Shantotto (some magic/scythe), Mihli Aliapo (club/heals/buffs). I don't have Ingrid yet because I hear she's pretty good at hitting mob weakness as well. I've gotten a lot of Raxa cloth and one rainbow. 0

    2 more celaeno cloths were put up on AH but it went from 140k a piece to over 210k+ and I don't know how much it is now, because I can't afford it and nobody else is buying over the 210k+ price right now.

    Of course the devs will be evil and try to make it take even longer to wipe out a VWNM in over 10 tries for one reward but one thing you've forgotten is this. Celeano cloth alone is used for 3 different relic sets (RNG, DNC, RUN). So 50 for one set of 5 drops relic reforge is fine, because it would take a total of 150 (if increased to your suggested 20+ per material drop would then be 300+ kills) would be total kills with this method get a total of 15 materials to clear all 3 sets but would also drop the price as well to make it more attainable for those not as wealthy as other players.

    Now multiply that towards every other VWNM that also requires to be killed a total of 150(or 300) times for 3 different relic sets. Voidwrought Armor has 15 materials for WAR/NIN/DRG which I haven't even started yet either... And we have a total of 22 job classes. Which at 10 per kill exluding prerequisite reforge quests already equals a whopping 1,100 VWNM kills alone (2,200+ if we go with your suggested 20+ kills for one drop) for just one character. And need I remind you we have other items we also have to get to complete that again? 40 total Rem's chapters for EACH set of reforge equipment. And 1 each of the other NMs needed to be fought (unless ur richez AND AH has it in stock).

    Plus the runs/sparks for the other material requirements such as Rem's Chapters 6-10 (unless you have 600,000 sparks for the entire set), And the other items like Rockfins, Bztavian stingers, etc.

    And remember that some folks also have more than ONE character... now multiply that times who knows however many characters one may have... It's impossible to clear that many in one person's lifetime unless they HAVE NO LIFE, no work, no school, and no bills.

    As well as the fact that players already have other time consuming (or gil if one is rich enough and doesn't have to farm if its not on AH) prerequisites to upgrade relic equipment from its original level to 75, then from 75 to magian trials to 90 (which ranges from 30-50 already), then from 90 to 109 (in order to ease the requirements from jumping straight to 119), and then to meet the requirements for some relic gear 119+1(so far hands and feet only) to be upgraded to a +2 and +3 version, which will possibly include body/legs, and head in the future. And that is JUST for RELIC which once again we have 22 job classes total.

    This is excluding upgrading empyrean, AF1, and Ambuscade, Escha, and w/e other armor sets can be upgraded to maximize it's potential if one is willing or has the time.

    Nobody has the lifetime to accomplish the utmost they can get from this game, unless maybe they devoted their entire lifetime to just this one game. I always give the devs the challenge, that if it's good enough for the players, then the devs themselves should play it on our level without hax GM gear that makes things go the way they want xD. They'd go crazy within the first month at the standards they place on the players who are paying them to make us feel entertained, and yet always end up making us mostly frustrated.
    (0)
    Last edited by draconus; 01-23-2018 at 08:33 PM.

  10. #10
    Player Nyarlko's Avatar
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    Nov 2015
    Posts
    1,523
    Character
    Nyarlko
    World
    Asura
    Main Class
    BST Lv 99
    You have my sincere sympathies for that astonishingly bad run of luck. I went 1/184 on D.Ring which has a confirmed/flat 5% drop rate, so I know what it's like to beat the odds in a bad way. ^^;;

    I also have 13x characters, spread across 2x accounts. Besides the two mains who are fully capable of endgame on multiple jobs each, the 11 "mules" all have at least 1x 99 job w/ full 119ilv gear. Out of the 13, 8 of them have completed RoV missions, all 13x have at least one full set of farmed up relic gear along with the Dynamis clears that are required, 6x are capable of reforging, and etc... I am absolutely fully aware of the pain and suffering of reforging, farming, etc. because I am a non-repentant altoholic. XD

    I agree with most of what you are saying in favor of a lower requirement from the player perspective, but you forgot to include the most important aspect from the dev's perspective. You are talking about an item which they have intentionally set up with a ton of uses and they expect it to command a premium. Any additional source will have an economic impact on the price of the item itself, as well as numerous crafted equipments. (Don't bother trying to argue the usefulness of any of those recipes since it really doesn't matter to the devs.) The only way that a new source would be something allowable would be to make it equally as painful as current methods, even if it is more reliable and less luck-based. Do not forget, this is the team that rejected removing the daily fishing cap citing the economic impact increased fish supply would have. ><;;

    BTW, there are very, very few jobs whose JSEs are worth fully reforging. It's not a fair assumption to make that you require the maximum full-load of mats/time/effort/cost regardless of job. If you are aiming for just a few cloths for personal reforging, then you would be better served at this point to farm up sparks to convert to gil and buy them from the AH.
    (0)
    “That is not dead which can eternal lie, And with strange aeons even death may die.”

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