More Apex Monster locations?

[Urmom]

Those targets are higher level (136ish) than gates mobs, and can actually pose a serious challenge to undergeared/unprepared groups. For instance, before the last mob stat nerf, Apex Bat in Outer Raz needed ~1400acc to cap, and hit non-tanks like a pissed off truck. I've seen trust tanks basically get one-shotted by unlucky strings of DA/crits as well.. Basically saying, it's not a simple/laid-back camp where you can get away without a tank or support. Should note that I've gotten ~30k CP/kill without chain on those as well. Should also note that while the mobs there are segregated and have distinct camps (beware the fallen robots, they are mean if you wake them up btw,) the zone map is not exactly straightforward, so expect a ~20min commute from town until you memorize the route.

Inner Raz has always been intriguing to me, but the Apex mobs there seem to be intentionally positioned to prevent safe pulling. I tried to learn some BLU spells there and consistently got angry-mobbed and curb-stomped every time I tried to pull certain mobs, and said mobs would tear thru trusts like nothing anyway, so I gave up on the dvergrs there as learning targets. :x Those ones at least are ~137-139, so you'd be exp'ing on mobs higher level than Escha T3s.

Maybe instead of adding more Apex mob spawns, the devs can just move around some of the existing ones to allow some viable camps in Ra'Kaznar zones?

Sure they aren't for people soloing and low manning or random setup. But for the situations of parties on top of parties seems like a viable alternative. I find inner courts easier/faster to get around in. Need more of a return to old xp pting

As far as pulling your problem seems to be you were targeting the pseudo nms that rule each camp and not the ones titled apex. I've definitely pulled them and done testing on them via it (dvergr was actually how I was able to hit iirc like 60k cp kill back before we had 2-3x or half the bonuses we do now) they are of course the only one on each camp so have to often go around or kill other mobs to do it while if you were just cping you'd just kill the mobs around it just fine. Pulling the regular apex mobs don't think I've ever got other stuff there.

There is also the fact that like I said they are pseudo nms so while they don't check impossible to gauge they definitely have higher stats/lvls then the surrounding mobs, nm type name, and annoying monster types that are generally associated with nms and probably most importantly less ridiculous AoEs. For a blu getting spells yeah it might make sense but no cp party is going to target the Naraka instead of the skeletons around it lol. Long time ago when I first did it yeah acc was an issue (took me like 20 minutes to tribox the dvergr to death though there never was any danger) but just new/better gear it's gotten a lot better. While maybe higher level danger level and difficulty of the actually apex is below even T1 escha nms by a bit. I might go back up see how fast I can kill though sadly my best jobs for blowing thru lots of hp safely multiboxing without help don't need cp lol. Hmmmm maybe if I gear up my rng and have auto tank...

[Nyarlko]

Sure they aren't for people soloing and low manning or random setup. But for the situations of parties on top of parties seems like a viable alternative. I find inner courts easier/faster to get around in. Need more of a return to old xp pting

As far as pulling your problem seems to be you were targeting the pseudo nms that rule each camp and not the ones titled apex. I've definitely pulled them and done testing on them via it (dvergr was actually how I was able to hit iirc like 60k cp kill back before we had 2-3x or half the bonuses we do now) they are of course the only one on each camp so have to often go around or kill other mobs to do it while if you were just cping you'd just kill the mobs around it just fine. Pulling the regular apex mobs don't think I've ever got other stuff there.

There is also the fact that like I said they are pseudo nms so while they don't check impossible to gauge they definitely have higher stats/lvls then the surrounding mobs, nm type name, and annoying monster types that are generally associated with nms and probably most importantly less ridiculous AoEs. For a blu getting spells yeah it might make sense but no cp party is going to target the Naraka instead of the skeletons around it lol. Long time ago when I first did it yeah acc was an issue (took me like 20 minutes to tribox the dvergr to death though there never was any danger) but just new/better gear it's gotten a lot better. While maybe higher level danger level and difficulty of the actually apex is below even T1 escha nms by a bit. I might go back up see how fast I can kill though sadly my best jobs for blowing thru lots of hp safely multiboxing without help don't need cp lol. Hmmmm maybe if I gear up my rng and have auto tank...

They actually don't have higher stats that the surrounding mobs as far as I could tell, other than family/job differences, so I don't believe that they count as "pseudo NMs". The dvergr are the same level range as the Apex Bats in the same zone for instance. Dvergr are probably a bad test subject/example though simply due to having no other non-NM versions to compare them to as far as I know of.

My problem was that any time I took a single hit from any of them, I would drop into the yellow and blood agro a bunch of adds, which would sometimes link w/ even more adds, which resulted in a vaguely Nyarlko-shaped smear on the floor after a few seconds. ^^;;

For the other 137-139 Apex mobs in Inner Raz, (like Apex Bats - triplets,) or any lv139 non-NM, expect to need at least ~1436acc to cap, plus more to counter any acc-/eva+ type moves from your targets. (That should be the right value unless there's an extra scaling breakpoint @136+ that I haven't tried testing for since the last mob nerf.)

All of which means that the traditional party setup (tank+heal+support+3x Damage-of-some-sort) is probably the best option for attempting these. Don't be too surprised if you get eaten though. XD

[Aysha]

There's some point where kill speed matters, too.

I mean, sure you could get the 65.5k cap on the stuff in Inner Ra'kaznar, but they surely take a lot more effort than Gates mobs.

If you can kill weaker stuff faster, you might get better XP/hr, kinda like the old days where killing VT was better than IT++. 100xp per 2 min is better than 200xp per 5 min, etc.

[Urmom]

They actually don't have higher stats that the surrounding mobs as far as I could tell, other than family/job differences, so I don't believe that they count as "pseudo NMs". The dvergr are the same level range as the Apex Bats in the same zone for instance. Dvergr are probably a bad test subject/example though simply due to having no other non-NM versions to compare them to as far as I know of.

My problem was that any time I took a single hit from any of them, I would drop into the yellow and blood agro a bunch of adds, which would sometimes link w/ even more adds, which resulted in a vaguely Nyarlko-shaped smear on the floor after a few seconds. ^^;;

For the other 137-139 Apex mobs in Inner Raz, (like Apex Bats - triplets,) or any lv139 non-NM, expect to need at least ~1436acc to cap, plus more to counter any acc-/eva+ type moves from your targets. (That should be the right value unless there's an extra scaling breakpoint @136+ that I haven't tried testing for since the last mob nerf.)

All of which means that the traditional party setup (tank+heal+support+3x Damage-of-some-sort) is probably the best option for attempting these. Don't be too surprised if you get eaten though. XD

Maybe not level but compared to the other mob types around definitely much stronger (though Dvergr is probably the weakest of those pseudo nms probably because it's closest regular mob type equivalent is corpselight which are pretty weak) even if only because of the moves. They are definitely not the things you'd target for cping even if they weren't 1 ofs.

I know it's been a really long time since it's been popular or useful but you can pull without taking hits until it gets to camp <.<. Heck can even do it in the middle of a group of mobs though much harder and wouldn't recommend. Either way not a problem for cp groups who would just pull the closest mobs at range

I can go check exact numbers but I was definitely unfloored (though still terrible acc) with my autos ws a good couple of years ago when I last seriously fought them and their acc at the time was iirc around 1150-1170 given the ws have 0-150 acc bonus I doubt I needed more than 1400 to cap even prenerf. That said only tried skeletons and dvergr

Or a mixed build. With say pets playing dual dd/tank roles. Or maybe some mb setup to go lighter on the support/healer role not sure. Only did limited magic testing which gave me some weird results as far as dmg and they seemed fairly resistant... but only really tried against caster types and well didn't have good macc sets so not sure if it's viable. Could even maybe combine and use some lizards to deal decent blunt dmg to skeletons into a 3 step liquefaction -> fusion that some mages MB.

I could also see making your support the healer and optimization dmg type weakness for huge skills to take them down fast or just target the floating sperm because they are wet paper bags

There's some point where kill speed matters, too.

I mean, sure you could get the 65.5k cap on the stuff in Inner Ra'kaznar, but they surely take a lot more effort than Gates mobs.

If you can kill weaker stuff faster, you might get better XP/hr, kinda like the old days where killing VT was better than IT++. 100xp per 2 min is better than 200xp per 5 min, etc.

OH sure this wouldn't be my first choice. That's cleaving in reisin. But this whole thread was started on there is no where to camp because camping over each other. This whole line is based on pull speed and mob availability matters. The point is there are alternatives so don't be a jerk and overcamp stuff

[Nyarlko]

There were likely at least two major mob nerfs since you tested if it was a couple years ago. This last one actually altered what I call the "Level +1 Formula" too, so everything not only had their baseline stats lowered, but they gain less stats for each level gained over 119. Pre-nerfs, based on level alone and excluding any oddball negative evasion bonuses if they exist, lv139 mobs would need 1469-1516 acc, depending on whether the mob's jobs and Evasion Bonus traits. I've always had trouble reaching high enough acc to even try testing the 137+ mobs, and haven't tried in recent months. If anyone else gives these a shot, please test for acc reqs while you're at it! XD

[Urmom]

So yeah tested and these things are much easier than expected. Not too different in terms of relative acc requirements and survivability as old 75 meriting at the harder camps (think like doing some nin mamool while doing the puks and whatever). The danger of overcapping is real though

[Shiyo]

They should add apex mobs to every zone in the game, I want to go exp in king ramperre's tomb, garlaige, crawlers nest, sky, sea, gustav, kuftal, etc again. It's so easy to code mobs to respawn in ~30 seconds and have the stats of level 130-150 so why not.

Would be so fun to be able to exp in old zones from back in the day again(also I want conquest and imperial standing).

[Aysha]

They should add apex mobs to every zone in the game, I want to go exp in king ramperre's tomb, garlaige, crawlers nest, sky, sea, gustav, kuftal, etc again. It's so easy to code mobs to respawn in ~30 seconds and have the stats of level 130-150 so why not.

Would be so fun to be able to exp in old zones from back in the day again(also I want conquest and imperial standing).

We already did that once during Abyssea. It messed up several old XP camps and made some quests arguably much more dangerous than they once were (getting a Dangruf Stone, for example, is far more dangerous now that there's Lv80+ mobs where they used to be Lv20).

I think that would be overkill to go through all that all over again. I think that merely some areas like Cirdas (as I mentioned above) have plenty of nooks and crannies where Apex mobs could be tucked away that wouldn't be in anybody's way.

[Nyarlko]

We already did that once during Abyssea. It messed up several old XP camps and made some quests arguably much more dangerous than they once were (getting a Dangruf Stone, for example, is far more dangerous now that there's Lv80+ mobs where they used to be Lv20).

I think that would be overkill to go through all that all over again. I think that merely some areas like Cirdas (as I mentioned above) have plenty of nooks and crannies where Apex mobs could be tucked away that wouldn't be in anybody's way.

I think the Map2 areas for Cirdas Caverns (the ones you "Beam me up!" to from a crystal thing in each major SoA zone, which requires beating the local WKR to use) would be a great place to stick more ~135 Apex mobs. They are rarely occupied by even one player, there are not any quests that I know of that it would interfere with, and the mobs there are already 120-125 so there wouldn't be as drastic a change as adding them to old zones. I'm pretty sure that SoA+ zones mob level/stat mechanics work differently than old zones as well, so there are likely to be technical hurdles in adding them to old zones.

Note: Give me Apex Hippogryphs with decent drop rates on Feathers and I will be ecstatic. XD I'm sooooooooooo sick of farming for about 12/hr, with TH8+...

[Shiyo]

We already did that once during Abyssea. It messed up several old XP camps and made some quests arguably much more dangerous than they once were (getting a Dangruf Stone, for example, is far more dangerous now that there's Lv80+ mobs where they used to be Lv20).

I think that would be overkill to go through all that all over again. I think that merely some areas like Cirdas (as I mentioned above) have plenty of nooks and crannies where Apex mobs could be tucked away that wouldn't be in anybody's way.

Vast majority of the mobs they added to old area don't even aggro or link now.