Implement Weekend "Double Everything" Bonus Please :D

[Shiyo]

I haven't looked at all the spreadsheets and simulations recently but I find it hard to believe they are that far behind unless real DD only refers to like 2-3 jobs. Maybe if you count skillchain dmg but a lot of that is how you set things up. Hell last I was reading post update even mnk is that far behind and I mean lolmnk. Unless you are going by straight parses or something which well most blus are mediocre at best and as you already admit mostly just spam cdc like dummies.

Then again you can't really use a modifier of proper party composition and complain about skill properties since in a party where skillchaining is useful a proper party composition would use dds with good ws with complimentary skillchain properties. That said they have strong ws for 3/4 level 2 elements and both level 3 so idk about not having good properties unless again lolcdcspammage

Spreadsheets are very inaccurate and bad. Everytime I've tested something in game it's proven to me spreadsheets are wrong because the data put into them for stats/gear/etc are not accurate(even for up to date spreadsheets!) and thus the results become wrong. Real game testing is the only 100% accurate testing. The corsair guides BIS gear lists are a great example of the spreadsheets being wrong, as there's so much incorrect information there it's not even funny.


The below assumes a proper party comp with 2-4 supports and people keeping their buffs up and actually -naing dd's and hasting curing erasing etc.

Jobs that do more dps than blu:
DRG WAR SAM DRK THF DNC COR(Needs to not be a roll only cor and have damage sets)

Jobs that do around blue dps:
NIN

Job's that probably do more dps than blue with omen accs:
RDM

Job's that blu does more dps than:
MNK PUP


Bluemage is good when you have braindead support or a bad party comp, but you don't want to be in comps like that anyways so it's irrelevant. Bluemage is a bad DD, and needs to stop being called a "heavy dd" - it's a jack of all trades that does nice things like aoe erase, aoe sleep, light dispel, defense down, aoe curing, etc.

What makes bluemage SC properties so bad? It's the fact it wants to press Expiacion and CDC to keep up aftermaths but there's MUCH better distortion users(thf, dancer mainly), it has ZERO fusion weapon skills and competes with resolution for frag while the only good non-mythic fusion weapon skill is upheavel and shun, and ninja is not a good DD either. It's gravitation weapon skill is REQ, which is a god awful weapon skill for trying to deal damage, couple this with the fact that corsair is a better savage blade user and you really don't want a bluemage for skillchaining because it's REALLY bad at scing with other optimal jobs. The only way it can get a decent gravitation WS is by using a Hepatizion sapara but that's going to nerf it's damage even more as corsair can use that with ZERO penalty to it's damage while a bluemage loses out on it's almace or tizona to use it.

[Urmom]

While there are problems with spreedsheets a lot of the ones listed can be solved by well actually inputting data correctly. In fact that's less a problem with them and more of an user error problem really. And from what I've been reading on forums people are moving more towards simulations that allow well for it to follow more like how a fight would actually happen like not using averages and being able to plan for multistep skillchains or purposefully holding tp.

Unless you have a bunch of people with verifable best gear for everything AND have them all playing them optimally parse data is even more useless. I mean every problem with the spreedsheets can in some fashion translate over to the game. But instead of putting wrong gear in it's just using the wrong gear or playing wrong. Not to dig on you but you've kind of shown not to know what they have access to. Sure bandwagons are even worse.

So while I'm sure the blus you've seen have done less dmg then those other jobs you've seen that doesn't necessarily disprove anything. I mean I've literally had several HTBF runs where my pld not only did the most dmg but did more than the rest of the pt combine... and also managed to heal more than the rdm that was attempting to dd lol. Way back in the day I'd win VW parses all the time on rng where 99% of my dmg was wildfire. Like I barely even shot and that was over the course of months with several different groups and people. Obviously rng wasn't that OP and I started losing when a friend with 99 Ukon started coming. This is why every other forum is going to laugh when you say it's not a good dd unless you are comparing people who are known for being the best on the job. Because math is accurate as long as you put things in right and it's easy to check while real game "testing" it's incredibly hard to verify things are being compared fairly especially when you seem to already being decided what can be used with it.

[Shiyo]

Simulations use spreadsheet data and the spreadsheet data isn't accurate, so the simulations are inaccurate as well.

I have not yet partied with a bluemage that can outdps my corsair in proper party buffed situations, and I've been with Tizona and almace blus. I've played with RMEA DD's and their damage is 30-50% higher than any blue mage I've played with. You can "laugh" all you want, but my real in game data shows that bluemage benefits the least from buffs and doesn't deal anywhere near the damage of RMEA dd's.

The extreme inconveniences of bluemages sc properties completely neuter party damage and SC set ups heavily, making bluemage my most shunned DD preference by far.

You also have to consider nearly no high end top player is using bluemages as their DD jobs anymore, they all bring WAR/SAM/DRK/DRG to HELMS and omen now, there is probably a reason for that(might be that the general player base/forums are always 6 months-2 years behind).

[Urmom]

Simulations use spreadsheet data and the spreadsheet data isn't accurate, so the simulations are inaccurate as well.

Yeah no that's now how this works that's not how any of this works. I get it you don't know how math works.

But to spell it out for you. Each sheet is maintained on it's own. Most of those "inaccurate" ones you find are all based on things people haven't maintained from OPs that made forever and a day ago often by people that don't play anymore. People update them further along in pages. Simulations are a whole other beast where everything is inputted in and ran thru differently. They are much more updated as they are recent and usually from users a lot more currently active. Unless you can point out specific flaws in them...

[Shiyo]

Yeah no that's now how this works that's not how any of this works. I get it you don't know how math works

Uh, the data put into them is wrong and no one has bothered to test it properly, there's so much inaccurate data in spreadsheets it's laughable. They think x item is better than y but then if you go test it in game it's actually completely wrong. Spreadsheets shouldn't be wrong,but people don't know the actual numbers that are used in game for EVERY calculation so the spreadsheet ends up being wrong. Math can't be wrong, but the equations can be, and when people don't know the exact numbers that the game uses for 100% of things, you get spreadsheets being wrong.

Here's a good example: Pixie hairpin +1 is said to be "BIS" for leaden salute by a lot. Go test pixie hairpin +1 with leaden salute vs herc helm with at least 25 MAB. Have fun.

edit: you just admitted spreadsheets aren't maintaned and up to date. Well, ok, then don't quote them like a bible.

In game experiences show bluemage is a subpar DD, top players don't use bluemages as dd's anymore. There's probably a reason for both these things.

Let me know when bluemage can do this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n68mlSFJMwE

Bluemage is a solo job and jack of all trades, not a damage dealer.

[Urmom]

Lol wut. No wonder why people think you are crazy on other forums. Outside of a few weird niche things (like staff ws since the big ws update) and mob stats (though they get somewhat tested) pretty much all player damage related has been thoroughly tested and retested. You think you know better? Then go out with controlled tests and math to back it up. Seriously prove it. Not put parses up not lol look what a specific person can do. Proof the actual math wrong with your own

As far as your example it depends on many factors. No piece of gear can be taken out of context especially in the age of stat vomit.

I said not ALL of the spreadsheets are maintained and up to date. Stop looking at OPs like they are the bible and use most recently updated ones.

[Shiyo]

Contesting accepted knowledge that most everyone uses doesn't make someone crazy. Did you test pixie vs herc helm for leaden yet?

Anyways, any mods here? Being personally attacked and insulted, would appreciate some moderation <3

[Urmom]

Awww look get asked to prove supposed inaccuracies with other peoples testing and you want to call a mod.

Go ahead and feel attacked all you want but you aren't being. Your ideas are. You claim there is no proper testing... when you can go thru and see mountains of testing and retesting and debate. You say equations are wrong despite lots of people beating those horses to death figuring it out. But hey people miss things and sometimes other people miss the same things and stuff changes (and I don't think anyone has reverified the numbers SE gave us for club or staff ws)so maybe there are some inaccuracies. But you (or someone else) will actually have to go out and test and back up with full math that other people can also check for inaccuracies the same way the original data was in order to prove it wrong. Just stating it over and over again when people have poured immense amounts of time into testing this stuff is laughable. That's like me saying pup is top DD because I state it does more dmg and well actually does more often then it really should

[DarkValefor]

I haven't looked at any spreadsheets and I don't really know how top players perform, but I have to say that I've barely seen 2 or 3 BLUs actually deal real damage, the rest were lower than any other DD who actually worked on their gear, obviously sparks DD doesn't work. You never see a BLU for example WSing for 70k damage, or making huge Skillchains, yea they spam that CdC button, but that CdC is not so big damage. Obviously a BLU with Almace can do great amounts of damage, but in the same way another DD with empy weapons or mythic weapons can do good amounts of damage.

But IMO BLUs are usually chosen not because of their damage, which is commonly low, but because of their survivality. My Dancer for example is usually dead after the first or second WS in high level content like Omen because tanks have no way to get hate back.

[Shiyo]

That's why thief is the best DD because trick attack exists!
just like how ninja is the best DD in ff14
(not really, just enmity being an issue can screw things over sometimes)