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  1. #11
    Player Selindrile's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Posts
    635
    Character
    Selindrile
    World
    Asura
    Main Class
    BLU Lv 99
    Quote Originally Posted by saevel View Post
    And none of them ever did actually quit, they stopped playing for a day or three then got right back on.
    While this isn't completely true, I do know a person who quit over the bst nerfs, and another who quit over the Geo nerfs (was a career BLM) and they haven't been back, I'll agree that the sentiment is mostly true. On both sides of the isle people who complain and say they're going to quit over something mostly don't do it.

    I was mostly making the point that there is more discontentment and quitting over nerfs, than leaving things imbalanced even if some people think it's too easy. The upheaval and "rug pulled out from under you" effect that happens when someone starts putting effort into a job, only to have it be nerfed, and all their work goes to naught, has a far larger negative impact on the community from what I've seen.
    (2)

  2. #12
    Player Urmom's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2016
    Posts
    448
    Character
    Urmom
    World
    Shiva
    Main Class
    GEO Lv 99
    Should check the bst section. While people have more or less given up there used to be people popping in off and on asking if it was safe to come back to the game yet
    (4)

  3. #13
    Player Frodnon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    90
    Character
    Frod
    World
    Asura
    Main Class
    SMN Lv 99
    1. Smn is not 100% immune to mob debuffs and mechanics. We're actually quite susceptible to them. Avatars have low def, even with their 50% dt, and are prone to AOE dt or mob focus killing them promptly. Currently bst has effectively 5-7000 hp on their pets and several effective ways to heal and remove enfeebles. Odyllic subterfuge is what we use to avoid enfeebles, but it isn't 100%.

    2. Smn is a back row job. Its a mage. SE said this directly during the bst nerf to explain the role differences, they want bst meleeing with pet. Player range was actually increased at some point, from ~18 to ~21 to help with the fact we weren't as far back as whm and blm.

    3. Removing conduit will not stop a smn group. 4 smns, 2 cors can put out enough pacts to do schah in a group of 8 without conduit. Nerfing smn damage output will ruin all endgame viability in other situations.

    4. The faults of this situation are on other mechanics in the game, namely mob hp scaling, melees requiring extra support, and difficulties of being in melee range.
    (3)

  4. #14
    Player Shiyo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    705
    Character
    Kitori
    World
    Bahamut
    Main Class
    NIN Lv 99
    Quote Originally Posted by Urmom View Post
    Should check the bst section. While people have more or less given up there used to be people popping in off and on asking if it was safe to come back to the game yet
    You can't post on this forum without an active sub.

    Quote Originally Posted by Frodnon View Post
    1. Smn is not 100% immune to mob debuffs and mechanics. We're actually quite susceptible to them. Avatars have low def, even with their 50% dt, and are prone to AOE dt or mob focus killing them promptly. Currently bst has effectively 5-7000 hp on their pets and several effective ways to heal and remove enfeebles. Odyllic subterfuge is what we use to avoid enfeebles, but it isn't 100%.

    2. Smn is a back row job. Its a mage. SE said this directly during the bst nerf to explain the role differences, they want bst meleeing with pet. Player range was actually increased at some point, from ~18 to ~21 to help with the fact we weren't as far back as whm and blm.

    3. Removing conduit will not stop a smn group. 4 smns, 2 cors can put out enough pacts to do schah in a group of 8 without conduit. Nerfing smn damage output will ruin all endgame viability in other situations.

    4. The faults of this situation are on other mechanics in the game, namely mob hp scaling, melees requiring extra support, and difficulties of being in melee range.
    Your avatars can be resummoned, players can't be resummoned when they die or are amnesiad or terrored etc.
    (1)

  5. #15
    Player Frodnon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    90
    Character
    Frod
    World
    Asura
    Main Class
    SMN Lv 99
    An avatar resummon and assault at range is 5+ seconds, a substantial reduction of damage and can cost you harder fights like albumen.

    Player getting amnesiad is a complete shutdown on the smn.
    (2)

  6. #16
    Player saevel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Posts
    2,345
    Character
    Saevel
    World
    Asura
    Main Class
    RDM Lv 99
    Your avatars can be resummoned, players can't be resummoned when they die or are amnesiad or terrored etc.
    It's Frod, his only job is SMN. He know it's broken, he knows that the broken component is Astral Conduit on multiple SMN's on a single target. He puts out a lot of redirection and smoke because he doesn't want his only job pushed off the top, he's been waiting years to finally be appreciated.
    (2)
    Quote Originally Posted by Raelix
    Ragnarok's aftermath is only 5% crit rate, even with lv99, so there's almost no point in using Scourge, you just spam Resolution. Even then you become just a boring meathead DD.

    Apoc with both Catastrophe and Entropy gives you crazy sustain of both HP and MP. With the Haste aftermath you can wear a ton of -PDT and solo almost any 75 content.
    Doing damage is for WAR's, DRK is about soloing 75 content yo.....

  7. #17
    Player saevel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Posts
    2,345
    Character
    Saevel
    World
    Asura
    Main Class
    RDM Lv 99
    Quote Originally Posted by Frodnon View Post
    An avatar resummon and assault at range is 5+ seconds, a substantial reduction of damage and can cost you harder fights like albumen.

    Player getting amnesiad is a complete shutdown on the smn.

    OMG he can't do anything for a whole 5 seconds, such a trajedy... so out of touch with the game.

    That's like the BST's complaining they actually need to east food to fight harder content.


    How about we do a compromise, SMN keeps it's awesome damage and every time an avatar dies the SMN is inflicted with a 5 minute weakness and has all their buffs wiped. You do have your avatar switch into -DT gear before a TP move right? You are using defensive bubbles like Fade, Wilt or Vex? That's things that regular DD's need to do to survive, so aren't you doing that also?
    (0)
    Last edited by saevel; 08-05-2017 at 01:02 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Raelix
    Ragnarok's aftermath is only 5% crit rate, even with lv99, so there's almost no point in using Scourge, you just spam Resolution. Even then you become just a boring meathead DD.

    Apoc with both Catastrophe and Entropy gives you crazy sustain of both HP and MP. With the Haste aftermath you can wear a ton of -PDT and solo almost any 75 content.
    Doing damage is for WAR's, DRK is about soloing 75 content yo.....

  8. #18
    Player Frodnon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    90
    Character
    Frod
    World
    Asura
    Main Class
    SMN Lv 99
    Quote Originally Posted by saevel View Post
    OMG he can't do anything for a whole 5 seconds, such a trajedy... so out of touch with the game.

    That's like the BST's complaining they actually need to east food to fight harder content.


    How about we do a compromise, SMN keeps it's awesome damage and every time an avatar dies the SMN is inflicted with a 5 minute weakness and has all their buffs wiped. You do have your avatar switch into -DT gear before a TP move right? You are using defensive bubbles like Fade, Wilt or Vex? That's things that regular DD's need to do to survive, so aren't you doing that also?
    5 seconds lost is easily 4 pacts, at 50k each thats 200k lost damage. A hard aoe that kills all avatars around the mob will cull enough damage to cost a run.

    Gear swapping via macro or otherwise during conduit is a terrible idea. You should be hammering the bloodpact either via 1line macro or menu and any delay or post macro swap can set you to bp in the wrong gear.

    I'm not dealing with dt because i'm a backline job at proper distance coupled with the fact that enmity between player and pet is separate. Avatars are disposable tissues compared to jugpets.

    Astral flow isn't broken because i can do similar strats without it. There are other core mechanics of the game that need adressing. Hp scaling, mob fight concepts, melee survivability all need to be adressed.
    (1)

  9. #19
    Player Nyarlko's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2015
    Posts
    1,540
    Character
    Nyarlko
    World
    Asura
    Main Class
    BST Lv 99
    Quote Originally Posted by saevel View Post
    OMG he can't do anything for a whole 5 seconds, such a trajedy... so out of touch with the game.

    That's like the BST's complaining they actually need to east food to fight harder content.


    How about we do a compromise, SMN keeps it's awesome damage and every time an avatar dies the SMN is inflicted with a 5 minute weakness and has all their buffs wiped. You do have your avatar switch into -DT gear before a TP move right? You are using defensive bubbles like Fade, Wilt or Vex? That's things that regular DD's need to do to survive, so aren't you doing that also?
    5sec of a 30sec ability is a loss of 16.66%, which is definitely big enough to notice. If you were missing 1 out of 5 WS, would you consider it a good thing?

    Don't think I've ever heard a BST complain about eating food in the last 2yrs, nor have I, so I have no idea what you're talking about there. :/
    (1)
    Last edited by Nyarlko; 08-05-2017 at 05:37 PM.
    “That is not dead which can eternal lie, And with strange aeons even death may die.”

  10. #20
    Player Shiyo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    705
    Character
    Kitori
    World
    Bahamut
    Main Class
    NIN Lv 99
    Quote Originally Posted by Frodnon View Post
    5 seconds lost is easily 4 pacts, at 50k each thats 200k lost damage. A hard aoe that kills all avatars around the mob will cull enough damage to cost a run.

    Gear swapping via macro or otherwise during conduit is a terrible idea. You should be hammering the bloodpact either via 1line macro or menu and any delay or post macro swap can set you to bp in the wrong gear.

    I'm not dealing with dt because i'm a backline job at proper distance coupled with the fact that enmity between player and pet is separate. Avatars are disposable tissues compared to jugpets.

    Astral flow isn't broken because i can do similar strats without it. There are other core mechanics of the game that need adressing. Hp scaling, mob fight concepts, melee survivability all need to be adressed.
    No, the entire game doesn't need to be redesigned because of a single job. That one single job needs to be changed(read: nerfed).

    I love summoner, I think it's so cool and unique. I always miss my summoner whenever I play another MMO because no other MMO has a job like SMN. However, with how summoner is in it's current state, and how it's just a fotm job, I feel horrible ever being on my summoner and playing it.

    I want to not feel horrible being on my summoner and not like a bluemage/bst player.
    Quote Originally Posted by Nyarlko View Post
    5sec of a 30sec ability is a loss of 16.66%, which is definitely big enough to notice. If you were missing 1 out of 5 WS, would you consider it a good thing?

    Don't think I've ever heard a BST complain about eating food in the last 2yrs, nor have I, so I have no idea what you're talking about there. :/
    If I miss 1/5 WS, I don't really complain. If I could WS while bypassing 100% of enemy mechanics and never die, I'd probably be bored out of my mind because there'd be no risk or challenge, only reward. I don't understand this smn main mindset of "well uh I lose 5 seconds of DPS!" and "well we're not op see, just every boss is badly designed!". Like, hello? If a DD dies they lose damage for FIVE minutes.

    It's been SEVEN months, it's time to bring challenge back to this game and remove smn AC zerging. It's absolutely insane that this has been allowed to go on for SO long.

    Do these developers care so little about their game that they'll let one single job completely ruin it and destroy it?

    To add to all this:

    If you aren't allowed to get an aeonic from brew killing NM's why are you allowed to get them from AC burning them? AC burning is literally easier and faster.

    I'll quote someone here:

    I'm pretty sure conduit is so damn broken its even faster than brewing.

    Ive brewed WOC and it takes around 2 minutes give or take... conduit with 2 smns takes around 30 seconds. (never brewed albumen)
    So explain why something stronger than brewing is allowed but brewing isn't allowed for kill credit. Brews are LITERALLY game shark, what does that make AC burning? Beat the game button?

    Beat a game button: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mUeeFybkRxA
    (1)
    Last edited by Shiyo; 08-05-2017 at 10:21 PM.

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