A reworked case for the discrepency between REM weapons and A

[detlef]

The player I was talking with about that specifically said he/she did it the hard way and many people would be upset if it wasn't hard for new people. Perhaps suffering is a bad word for my analogy, but the idea that it was hard for me so it should be hard for you is wrong, plain and simple.

I think you mis-characterized what I said. I simply stated that players expect and accept that things gradually become easier to make over time. Given that things have already become so much easier than they were, to further apply a 90% discount on RMEA requirements would be unacceptable. A reduction that significant would be excessive. I think this is a reasonable opinion that a lot of established players would share.

Um, I highly doubt a new player could merc for 5m an hour. Which is the point of my post, stating how long an average new player takes.

I do concede that a group is required for Aeonics, but more than once we shouted to fill a slot we needed. Heck, I joined my group by shouting in town that I was interested. Now, while I was super geared at the time on numerous jobs, I was asked to come on one I wasn't. I could have been a brand new player and would have been just as fine off. I didn't have any connections before that shout. That's why I don't consider it out of the realm of possibility for all players to acquire them.

It's interesting that we're talking about "an average new player." In your eyes, this player is extremely limited in money-making capabilities (reasonable assumption) but is somehow savvy enough to simply join an established Aeonic group by shouting in town. I think you're projecting too much based on your own experiences as a self-described super-geared returning player.

This in turn skews your idea of the amount of effort something should take. A lot of players do not have Aeonic weapons, and not for lack of trying. As I've said, the Aeonic monetary cost (negligible) and time cost (low with a good group) is balanced by the need to find a good group of well-geared players with multiple raid jobs who share your schedule and motivation. Aeonics were easy for you but represent a considerable, often impassible hurdle for a lot of the average new players. That's why I don't think it's reasonable to reduce RME requirements based on Aeonic effort.

[wfoley]

1. I don't think I mischaracterized it. You just restated what I said you said. Additionally, it is a false argument to state that "a lot of established players" share your opinion without facts to back it up. It would be as if I stated as if it were fact that most players would support a reduction in requirements. Do I know a couple of people that have said they wish it were easier? Sure. Does that mean most players also agree? No. I think, personally, that an average player with limited time would support any changes in gameplay that make the game less of a time sink. I do not know it to be true though so I don't state it as a fact to make my side of the argument sound better.

Even with my nicely geared jobs, none of them are jobs that can merc 5m an hour. I wish I could. Like I said, my group often filled slots for cor, whm, and skillchaining scholar with new people. One run we brought a summoner. A lot of the times they had shouted to join a group, sometimes we shouted that we needed those slots. Similarly, I see people without static groups shout all the time to make parties and clear content because they want the win. Perhaps that does skew my view on how easy it was to a degree. I do personally feel they are achievable to any player willing to invest the time into finding a group.

All of that aside, even without comparing the time for REMs to Aeonics, I do feel like the process to make some of the REM weapons is not balanced to the reward you get for it. Many mythics and relics can be outclassed by augmented items in reisenjima. Mythics take a large amount more work compared to Empyreans, but the empyreans have some weapons that are largely more powerful.

And having made numerous of the weapons, I wouldn't mind a reduction in time it takes to make them. For me, weapons are not a goal, but a tool to reach other goals. there's plenty of other content that could fill my time that I cant do if I choose to make a weapon due to limited time.

When they sped up leveling, there were a few hold outs who refused to level the fast way. Here and there you see people create nostalgia shells to relive the old content at slow speeds. But did a majority of the players quit just because leveling sped up? I don't think they did. Heck, people have the option to choose if they want to level to 99 in hours or go as slow as they want. Maybe that would be an option. Let people who want long term goals have a slow route, and those with limited time have a faster route. Kind of like how the AG step before they made REMs 121 ilevel. That slow ag step gave a long term goal for some, and other could just be done with it.

[wfoley]

Well, I am always willing to concede when I make a mistake. I have updated the OP per numerous suggestions for some of the times required.

Stompa, while I don't agree with your philosophy that we build a weapon with blinders and love it even if it has poor damage or effects, but I do respect you for stating it as your personal opinion. I do agree that no other game has the sense of accomplishment this one does for ultimate weapons. Having said that, there are some I still want to make, but the time investment is just so brutal after having made them over so many years.

[Afania]

But by your analogy, making REMAs is the point of this game and the only thing people should do to enjoy it. We differ on opinions there. I feel like weapons were designed to serve a purpose...beating content.

I didn't say making weapon is the only goal in this game. I only said it's one of the long term goal in this game and long term goal is what's FFXI built on.

I always envision REMA to be more of a status item that gives small boost to dedicated players, instead of entrance ticket to endgame or something. That's how it's been for years.

Since it's a status item, it's supposed to take lots of time to build, and it's not suppose to massively outclass none REMA. If newer player can't get into endgame because they're too behind without REMA, the solution is to buff none REMA weapons and make them have at least 90% to 95% of performance of REMA, not hand out REMA to everyone like Halloween candies or something. Otherwise it's no longer a status item, it'd be like spark gear or ambuscade gear, you just wear when you need it and toss them when you don't need it anymore.

And why is status item important? Because in an RPG, creating opportunity for players to be unique snowflakes makes the game interesting, because ultimately MMORPG is about people and role playing in a virtual world, not just killing bosses. By creating rare status items player gain sense of accomplishment and satisfaction by playing the game. That's how MMORPG works for ages.

Every time I see a top tier player playing their job, I always find it fun and exciting to see "I never thought this job can be played this way because I've never seen it before." THAT makes the game fun, and immersive. Unique snowflakes doesn't exist in other most other MMO, but it exist in FFXI, simply because certain gears or combination of gears in this game takes lonnnnng time to get and not everyone have them.

And just FYI, with wardrobe 3 and 4 are pretty much mandatory these days, FFXI currently cost $17 a month. By comparison many other MMO cost $10 to $12, most are free to play.

There's absolutely no reason to pay more to play a MMO that's same as FFXIV, or WoW, or GW2, or whatever that's currently on the market that cost less. And that's what you're trying to do currently, asking SE to change FFXI into the same game as everything else on the market.

Tl;dr: The idea of playing the game for 10hr and get an REMA makes the game utterly boring, that's why I'm against it. I have many gears that only takes 10hr to get, nothing feel quite the same as working on REMA for months and finally obtain them.

[Urmom]

Don't know if all these walls of text already mentioned it but also like to add rem 100% soloable even before ilvl. Aeonics... some people have a hard time beat the top ones even with small groups. Really need to rethink the brew restriction. Given the sheer cost of it doubt it's a big deal since most people probably don't even have enough for 1 let alone enough to take out all the T4s or the fear of easy moding the entire thing and takes a really long time to farm that much silt. And hp scaling and the sheer increase in monster powerlevel while brew has in a fashion actually gotten weaker compared to abyssea (have more stats already so less gained from it and no ability to switch some atmas to other percentage based increase and well we hitting dmg caps now easier) greatly discourage leeching/selling spots. Heck saw one guy actually failed a few times to kill just 1 WoC with brew in just 1 pt so scaling not even that bad yet... granted he was doingitwrong.jpg but still

[saevel]

Short Answer: No

Long Answer: Learn how to play

[chiefhunglo]

I say they should make two server's one for people that just want fast gear and the other that's not fast gearing.

[Nyarlko]

I say they should make two server's one for people that just want fast gear and the other that's not fast gearing.

If you want to go slow, transfer to a dead server. I'm sure the process would slow down considerably if there aren't enough people to kill things with

TBH, your suggestion makes absolutely no sense at all. Why would you possibly want to go slower than you have to?

[Urmom]

If you want to go slow, transfer to a dead server. I'm sure the process would slow down considerably if there aren't enough people to kill things with

TBH, your suggestion makes absolutely no sense at all. Why would you possibly want to go slower than you have to?

So you can enjoy the ride

[Siviard]

If you want to go slow, transfer to a dead server. I'm sure the process would slow down considerably if there aren't enough people to kill things with

TBH, your suggestion makes absolutely no sense at all. Why would you possibly want to go slower than you have to?

Don't be so sure about that. There are advantages of being on a low population server. I have ZERO competition in Dynamis, basically every zone is empty except for the occasional JP player in Dynamis-Jeuno. I could very easily farm all the currency for a relic in less than a month.