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  1. #21
    Player detlef's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    1,640
    Character
    Philemon
    World
    Valefor
    Main Class
    BRD Lv 99
    Quote Originally Posted by wfoley View Post
    The player I was talking with about that specifically said he/she did it the hard way and many people would be upset if it wasn't hard for new people. Perhaps suffering is a bad word for my analogy, but the idea that it was hard for me so it should be hard for you is wrong, plain and simple.
    I think you mis-characterized what I said. I simply stated that players expect and accept that things gradually become easier to make over time. Given that things have already become so much easier than they were, to further apply a 90% discount on RMEA requirements would be unacceptable. A reduction that significant would be excessive. I think this is a reasonable opinion that a lot of established players would share.

    Quote Originally Posted by wfoley View Post
    Um, I highly doubt a new player could merc for 5m an hour. Which is the point of my post, stating how long an average new player takes.
    Quote Originally Posted by wfoley View Post
    I do concede that a group is required for Aeonics, but more than once we shouted to fill a slot we needed. Heck, I joined my group by shouting in town that I was interested. Now, while I was super geared at the time on numerous jobs, I was asked to come on one I wasn't. I could have been a brand new player and would have been just as fine off. I didn't have any connections before that shout. That's why I don't consider it out of the realm of possibility for all players to acquire them.
    It's interesting that we're talking about "an average new player." In your eyes, this player is extremely limited in money-making capabilities (reasonable assumption) but is somehow savvy enough to simply join an established Aeonic group by shouting in town. I think you're projecting too much based on your own experiences as a self-described super-geared returning player.

    This in turn skews your idea of the amount of effort something should take. A lot of players do not have Aeonic weapons, and not for lack of trying. As I've said, the Aeonic monetary cost (negligible) and time cost (low with a good group) is balanced by the need to find a good group of well-geared players with multiple raid jobs who share your schedule and motivation. Aeonics were easy for you but represent a considerable, often impassible hurdle for a lot of the average new players. That's why I don't think it's reasonable to reduce RME requirements based on Aeonic effort.
    (0)

  2. #22
    Player wfoley's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Posts
    18
    Character
    Likard
    World
    Ragnarok
    Main Class
    SMN Lv 99
    1. I don't think I mischaracterized it. You just restated what I said you said. Additionally, it is a false argument to state that "a lot of established players" share your opinion without facts to back it up. It would be as if I stated as if it were fact that most players would support a reduction in requirements. Do I know a couple of people that have said they wish it were easier? Sure. Does that mean most players also agree? No. I think, personally, that an average player with limited time would support any changes in gameplay that make the game less of a time sink. I do not know it to be true though so I don't state it as a fact to make my side of the argument sound better.

    Even with my nicely geared jobs, none of them are jobs that can merc 5m an hour. I wish I could. Like I said, my group often filled slots for cor, whm, and skillchaining scholar with new people. One run we brought a summoner. A lot of the times they had shouted to join a group, sometimes we shouted that we needed those slots. Similarly, I see people without static groups shout all the time to make parties and clear content because they want the win. Perhaps that does skew my view on how easy it was to a degree. I do personally feel they are achievable to any player willing to invest the time into finding a group.

    All of that aside, even without comparing the time for REMs to Aeonics, I do feel like the process to make some of the REM weapons is not balanced to the reward you get for it. Many mythics and relics can be outclassed by augmented items in reisenjima. Mythics take a large amount more work compared to Empyreans, but the empyreans have some weapons that are largely more powerful.

    And having made numerous of the weapons, I wouldn't mind a reduction in time it takes to make them. For me, weapons are not a goal, but a tool to reach other goals. there's plenty of other content that could fill my time that I cant do if I choose to make a weapon due to limited time.

    When they sped up leveling, there were a few hold outs who refused to level the fast way. Here and there you see people create nostalgia shells to relive the old content at slow speeds. But did a majority of the players quit just because leveling sped up? I don't think they did. Heck, people have the option to choose if they want to level to 99 in hours or go as slow as they want. Maybe that would be an option. Let people who want long term goals have a slow route, and those with limited time have a faster route. Kind of like how the AG step before they made REMs 121 ilevel. That slow ag step gave a long term goal for some, and other could just be done with it.
    (0)

  3. #23
    Player Stompa's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Remora
    Posts
    633
    Character
    Nebula
    World
    Leviathan
    Main Class
    WHM Lv 99
    Regarding the OP first few posts, I think you are being a little bit optimistic on the Empy farming times.

    1) Sometimes the pre-Aby NMs can take eight hours to re-load after a kill, because they are still true lottery spawns and you can keep rolling zeroes on the placeholders. This is despite the patch that SE made a few years ago, which made most of the pre-Aby NMs have much faster re-load times. There are still a few of them that can take eight hours to pop just once.

    2) Your estimate of the time required to farm 175 Aby Boss items, is also highly optimistic. 50 + 50 +75 = 175. Even if are good at procs, you will still have times when you don't proc, and have to build the sub-boss set again.
    Farming 175 Aby Boss drops takes a decent amount of time. Even just farming the mini-Boss triggers can take ages if the game keeps rolling zeroes.

    On your Core Point, regarding RMEEA building ;

    If you love a certain weapon ; the way it looks, the WS, AM, AG, job-specific bonuses, the delay, the damage, the mythology of the storyline, the mechanics of the building process, etc.

    You are, let us say, not buying any of the materials on AH or bazaars. You are building the whole thing with your own two sweet paws. This means you feel extremely proud of your achievement. You feel bonded to the weapon you have built, because it does not merely represent a weapon, it represents a year of your life, it represents hundreds of Adventuring Memories, either solo or in a group of friends.

    These deep feelings of achievement pride and weapon bonding are priceless sources of personal joy, and these feelings DO NOT EXIST IN ANY GAMES EXCEPT FFXI. You literally can not buy the feelings of personal achievement anywhere in other games. It is a warm and golden glow of mega personal happy feels.

    Those are my opinions, and they are not a criticism of anyone. I merely have the opinion, that when I desire to build a weapon, I want to build it, and I put on my Ear Muffs and don't listen to what other people think about my weapon.
    (0)
    Last edited by Stompa; 06-23-2017 at 07:00 PM. Reason: Brevity.

  4. #24
    Player wfoley's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Posts
    18
    Character
    Likard
    World
    Ragnarok
    Main Class
    SMN Lv 99
    Well, I am always willing to concede when I make a mistake. I have updated the OP per numerous suggestions for some of the times required.

    Stompa, while I don't agree with your philosophy that we build a weapon with blinders and love it even if it has poor damage or effects, but I do respect you for stating it as your personal opinion. I do agree that no other game has the sense of accomplishment this one does for ultimate weapons. Having said that, there are some I still want to make, but the time investment is just so brutal after having made them over so many years.
    (1)

  5. #25
    Player Stompa's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Remora
    Posts
    633
    Character
    Nebula
    World
    Leviathan
    Main Class
    WHM Lv 99
    Quote Originally Posted by wfoley View Post
    Well, I am always willing to concede when I make a mistake. I have updated the OP per numerous suggestions for some of the times required.

    Stompa, while I don't agree with your philosophy that we build a weapon with blinders and love it even if it has poor damage or effects, but I do respect you for stating it as your personal opinion. I do agree that no other game has the sense of accomplishment this one does for ultimate weapons. Having said that, there are some I still want to make, but the time investment is just so brutal after having made them over so many years.
    The other thing I should have said is that SOME of the Empy pre-Aby NMs do spawn very quickly, and some of the Abyssea Boss NMs can be farmed at high speed. But some of the pre-Aby NMs can be very slow to farm, and some of the Abyssea Boss NM paths are MUCH SLOWER than other Aby Boss paths. So to say that "Empys are slow" or "Empys are fast" is never going to be accurate, because of the huge diversity in the actual Boss NM paths.

    Some of the popsets are way more awkward and time-consuming to farm than others. What I meant was really, that if you get some of the awkward pre-Aby NMs, and some of the more difficult Abyssea Boss paths, then you can spend a HUGE amount of time finishing those stages. But I do not dispute that if you are lucky and doing one of the easier weapon paths, then you can actually speed through it much faster. I should have said that in my last post, but I'm at work and distracted, lol.

    I built a lot of Empys because I love Abyssea, and I love the mechanics of WS procs, and I loved the way Empys look and feel to me. The fact that Empys were considered "junk" a few years ago, and are now considered Mega Uber, does not change anything for me. I was building them because I liked the Mechanical Process of farming them, and I liked the actual areas in Aby, and the weapons themselves.

    So I think that the different weapons are more fun (and therefor more easy) to build if you enjoy playing in the zones where the weapon is farmed, and enjoy the mechanical structure of the building process.
    (0)
    Last edited by Stompa; 06-23-2017 at 06:57 PM. Reason: Brevity.

  6. #26
    Player Afania's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Posts
    1,445
    Character
    Afania
    World
    Bahamut
    Main Class
    BRD Lv 1
    Quote Originally Posted by wfoley View Post
    But by your analogy, making REMAs is the point of this game and the only thing people should do to enjoy it. We differ on opinions there. I feel like weapons were designed to serve a purpose...beating content.
    I didn't say making weapon is the only goal in this game. I only said it's one of the long term goal in this game and long term goal is what's FFXI built on.

    I always envision REMA to be more of a status item that gives small boost to dedicated players, instead of entrance ticket to endgame or something. That's how it's been for years.

    Since it's a status item, it's supposed to take lots of time to build, and it's not suppose to massively outclass none REMA. If newer player can't get into endgame because they're too behind without REMA, the solution is to buff none REMA weapons and make them have at least 90% to 95% of performance of REMA, not hand out REMA to everyone like Halloween candies or something. Otherwise it's no longer a status item, it'd be like spark gear or ambuscade gear, you just wear when you need it and toss them when you don't need it anymore.

    And why is status item important? Because in an RPG, creating opportunity for players to be unique snowflakes makes the game interesting, because ultimately MMORPG is about people and role playing in a virtual world, not just killing bosses. By creating rare status items player gain sense of accomplishment and satisfaction by playing the game. That's how MMORPG works for ages.

    Every time I see a top tier player playing their job, I always find it fun and exciting to see "I never thought this job can be played this way because I've never seen it before." THAT makes the game fun, and immersive. Unique snowflakes doesn't exist in other most other MMO, but it exist in FFXI, simply because certain gears or combination of gears in this game takes lonnnnng time to get and not everyone have them.

    And just FYI, with wardrobe 3 and 4 are pretty much mandatory these days, FFXI currently cost $17 a month. By comparison many other MMO cost $10 to $12, most are free to play.

    There's absolutely no reason to pay more to play a MMO that's same as FFXIV, or WoW, or GW2, or whatever that's currently on the market that cost less. And that's what you're trying to do currently, asking SE to change FFXI into the same game as everything else on the market.

    Tl;dr: The idea of playing the game for 10hr and get an REMA makes the game utterly boring, that's why I'm against it. I have many gears that only takes 10hr to get, nothing feel quite the same as working on REMA for months and finally obtain them.
    (1)
    Last edited by Afania; 06-16-2017 at 03:55 PM.

  7. #27
    Player Urmom's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2016
    Posts
    447
    Character
    Urmom
    World
    Shiva
    Main Class
    GEO Lv 99
    Don't know if all these walls of text already mentioned it but also like to add rem 100% soloable even before ilvl. Aeonics... some people have a hard time beat the top ones even with small groups. Really need to rethink the brew restriction. Given the sheer cost of it doubt it's a big deal since most people probably don't even have enough for 1 let alone enough to take out all the T4s or the fear of easy moding the entire thing and takes a really long time to farm that much silt. And hp scaling and the sheer increase in monster powerlevel while brew has in a fashion actually gotten weaker compared to abyssea (have more stats already so less gained from it and no ability to switch some atmas to other percentage based increase and well we hitting dmg caps now easier) greatly discourage leeching/selling spots. Heck saw one guy actually failed a few times to kill just 1 WoC with brew in just 1 pt so scaling not even that bad yet... granted he was doingitwrong.jpg but still
    (1)

  8. #28
    Player saevel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Posts
    2,345
    Character
    Saevel
    World
    Asura
    Main Class
    RDM Lv 99
    Short Answer: No

    Long Answer: Learn how to play
    (2)
    Quote Originally Posted by Raelix
    Ragnarok's aftermath is only 5% crit rate, even with lv99, so there's almost no point in using Scourge, you just spam Resolution. Even then you become just a boring meathead DD.

    Apoc with both Catastrophe and Entropy gives you crazy sustain of both HP and MP. With the Haste aftermath you can wear a ton of -PDT and solo almost any 75 content.
    Doing damage is for WAR's, DRK is about soloing 75 content yo.....

  9. #29
    Player chiefhunglo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2015
    Posts
    57
    Character
    Lordzphyr
    World
    Cerberus
    Main Class
    THF Lv 99
    I say they should make two server's one for people that just want fast gear and the other that's not fast gearing.
    (0)

  10. #30
    Player Nyarlko's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2015
    Posts
    1,523
    Character
    Nyarlko
    World
    Asura
    Main Class
    BST Lv 99
    Quote Originally Posted by chiefhunglo View Post
    I say they should make two server's one for people that just want fast gear and the other that's not fast gearing.
    If you want to go slow, transfer to a dead server. I'm sure the process would slow down considerably if there aren't enough people to kill things with

    TBH, your suggestion makes absolutely no sense at all. Why would you possibly want to go slower than you have to?
    (0)
    “That is not dead which can eternal lie, And with strange aeons even death may die.”

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