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  1. #1
    Player Aysha's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Posts
    405
    Character
    Aysha
    World
    Sylph
    Main Class
    WAR Lv 99

    Job/Capacity Point Gains make no sense.

    A thought came to me at work today...

    Usually, in a J-RPG, or any other RPG system for that matter, you start off at Level 1 and you gain levels quickly, because everything is new to you. You start increasing in strength rapidly, but as you progress through the game, time between levels starts slowing down. Maybe you got Level 2 in just a few kills, Level 3 a kill or more more, etc. By the time you get to Level 50+, you're spending an hour or more on a levelup.

    It's similar for Weapon skills. Get a Lv99 character, grab a 119 weapon which you have 0 skill in and go out and start pounding on some Lv90+ enemies. The first 100 levels will come insanely fast (as long as you can hit the enemies reliably which should not be hard if you use Kuyin, sushi, etc). The second 100 levels will still be pretty swift, but around 250 or so it will slow down by a large margin.

    These things reflect how the learning process works in general -- when you first start learning something new, you get much better than you were very quickly, but as you learn more, you start to learn slower because the hardest things to learn, take the longest to learn.

    When you throw an American football for the first time, it is very awkward in your hands. The ball is shaped awkwardly and it probably wobbles like crazy the first time you threw it. The second time you throw it, it probably goes a bit better, doesn't it? 10 times later and you've probably taken most of the wobble out of the ball, but your aim still is lacking. An hour later, your aim has improved a lot, but you're still no quarterback. As time goes on, your learning process slows down.

    .... but...

    Let's look at Capacity Point gains. It's backwards. You start off learning slowly and you start learning faster as you get more job points. This makes no sense whatsoever; it SHOULD be the opposite like everything else is. Not only is this backwards, but it is ALSO unfriendly to newbies (it takes them FOREVER to get enough Job Points that their character becomes useful/desirable in groups) and those trying to start a new job.

    I really don't get why they chose to do it this way, to be honest. It just seems so backwards, and it discourages people from starting over again on a new job, because they go from +20%, or +30% Capacity Bonus back to +0% and it just seems so atrociously slow....
    (0)

  2. #2
    Player Nyarlko's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2015
    Posts
    1,523
    Character
    Nyarlko
    World
    Asura
    Main Class
    BST Lv 99
    Anyone expecting a pug slot should have at least the baseline CP+90% from ROV completion. This falls under the class of "stuff you should have before inflicting yourself on others" as far as I'm concerned. You need to understand that some stuff is going to be newbie unfriendly by nature, and that includes CP parties. CP party targets are going to be lv130+ and I'd be shocked stupid if I ran into someone on their first 99 geared enough to be able to not-leech and still new enough to be considered a "newbie".
    (0)
    “That is not dead which can eternal lie, And with strange aeons even death may die.”

  3. #3
    Player Aysha's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Posts
    405
    Character
    Aysha
    World
    Sylph
    Main Class
    WAR Lv 99
    Quote Originally Posted by Nyarlko View Post
    Anyone expecting a pug slot should have at least the baseline CP+90% from ROV completion. This falls under the class of "stuff you should have before inflicting yourself on others" as far as I'm concerned. You need to understand that some stuff is going to be newbie unfriendly by nature, and that includes CP parties. CP party targets are going to be lv130+ and I'd be shocked stupid if I ran into someone on their first 99 geared enough to be able to not-leech and still new enough to be considered a "newbie".
    +90% vs +120% is a rather large difference, and this still does not address why Capacity Gains should work in reverse.
    (0)

  4. #4
    Player saevel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Posts
    2,345
    Character
    Saevel
    World
    Asura
    Main Class
    RDM Lv 99
    Somebody didn't pay attention in school.

    Firstly realize that JP expenditure isn't linear, going from 0 to 1 costs 1 point while going from 19 to 20 costs 20. Both offer the exact same increase in potency. As you gain more JP your gifts get further and further apart. At lower levels they are 5~20 between gifts, at the higher level it's over a hundred. The built in CP boosts are there to compensate for this somewhat.

    Finally there is a huge amount of non-gift related CP bonus's that you are likely missing. RoV is 90% by itself, then you have all the reives, WKRs, and quest story line bonus's. By the time your done you are over 200% CP Bonus, then rings / Corsair Roll / Mantle and finally Gift bonus's. Before you start seriously getting CP you need to have that all done for 236% CP Bonus.
    (0)
    Quote Originally Posted by Raelix
    Ragnarok's aftermath is only 5% crit rate, even with lv99, so there's almost no point in using Scourge, you just spam Resolution. Even then you become just a boring meathead DD.

    Apoc with both Catastrophe and Entropy gives you crazy sustain of both HP and MP. With the Haste aftermath you can wear a ton of -PDT and solo almost any 75 content.
    Doing damage is for WAR's, DRK is about soloing 75 content yo.....

  5. 05-31-2017 06:33 AM

  6. #5
    Player Nyarlko's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2015
    Posts
    1,523
    Character
    Nyarlko
    World
    Asura
    Main Class
    BST Lv 99
    Quote Originally Posted by Aysha View Post
    +90% vs +120% is a rather large difference, and this still does not address why Capacity Gains should work in reverse.
    It's all additive to the baseline. Except rings.. Those are multiplicative to your total baseliene. :x I barely notice the diff between wearing or not my CP cape tbh.. Doesn't really matter if you are maxing out the hardcap 65535 CP/kill limit without it and rings are wearing after 1x kill w/o giving any benefit.

    As mentioned above, there are a bunch of other potential permanent CP bonuses from missions and reives as well that can all be done prior to trying to group up.
    (1)
    “That is not dead which can eternal lie, And with strange aeons even death may die.”

  7. #6
    Player Zuidar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    208
    Character
    Zuidar
    World
    Bismarck
    Main Class
    BLU Lv 99
    Yeah, be sure to get as much as those bonuses as you can. You can even get that vana'clock from the anniversary event chest for moghancement: Bounty for a little boost to exp/cp. Every bit counts and all adds up and it's very noticeable in higher capacity chains
    (0)

  8. #7
    Player Nefario's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    26
    Character
    Neferio
    World
    Asura
    Main Class
    NIN Lv 99
    I've got a love of the WHM. As i understand it, the role is still valuable in end game, but i'm wondering if it is really very desirable in CP parties...? I never see anyone shouting for them. If WHM is not a role in CP parties because of the nature/speed of kills, that would make it an oppressively tough class to master.
    (0)

  9. #8
    Player detlef's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    1,640
    Character
    Philemon
    World
    Valefor
    Main Class
    BRD Lv 99
    WHM and various other raid-friendly jobs are lucky in that they can accumulate JP through events. That said, there's certainly room in an Apex PT for a WHM, any balanced PT can work.
    (0)

  10. #9
    Player Songen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2016
    Location
    Windurst
    Posts
    327
    Character
    Horu
    World
    Odin
    Main Class
    MNK Lv 99
    SC partys use whm's, however you need a good refresh set and the cure convert to mp pants and cure potency. if you wanna do better than that boost your regen potency and duration as well, pretty much there is no tank and the melee's are tanking with tp sets, so whm is awesome for that not for curing, but for the stoneskin effect that comes after

    A good SC party will kill a mob every 10-20 seconds, just make sure the whm is up front with the melees so if the mob changes target, they can get hate back fast without it moving out of their range
    (0)

  11. #10
    Player Sirmarki's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Posts
    812
    Character
    Sirmarki
    World
    Asura
    Main Class
    WHM Lv 99
    Don't forget the additional ~+9% CP and other perks you can get from Monster rearing in your Mog Garden!
    (0)

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