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Thread: Cure V

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  1. #1
    Player Smp's Avatar
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    Jul 2011
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    Character
    Smp
    World
    Leviathan
    Main Class
    RDM Lv 99

    Cure V

    It's about time Red Mage (and Scholar) gets Cure V.

    It's ridiculous for levels to go up to lv99 without introducing the next tier of Cure spell "Cure V"; and at the same time giving White Mage a brand new tier spell "Cure VI".

    Also ridiculous that anybody can sub-job Red Mage to gain it's highest curing spell; which makes any job equal with primary Red Mage for access to curing spells.

    I understand Red Mage is not meant to wield the highest level of magic (in either black or white); but Cure V isn't the highest level of white magic anymore.

    Red Mage (and Scholar) was properly adjusted / upgraded for Dark Magic; being given Thunder V, Blizzard V, etc. but following this logic why was Cure V not added?

    I understand back in 2003; Red Mage did originally have Cure V and it was later removed. I assumed because it wasn't balanced; but given the fact that the levels have gone up from lv75 to lv99; whatever reasons for its removal should no longer be applicable.

    And the same can be said about Regen III.
    (3)

  2. #2
    Player Khiril's Avatar
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    Mar 2017
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    Character
    Klihri
    World
    Asura
    Main Class
    THF Lv 99
    +1 RDM deserves a lot of things it doesn't have.

    It doesn't really need cure 5, but it wouldn't affect anything negatively if given 5, so why not. I think RDM should have access to the highest regen tiers too.
    (3)

  3. #3
    Player Folken's Avatar
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    Dec 2016
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    Character
    Folken
    World
    Leviathan
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    NIN Lv 1
    Quote Originally Posted by Smp View Post

    Red Mage (and Scholar) was properly adjusted / upgraded for Dark Magic; being given Thunder V, Blizzard V, etc. but following this logic why was Cure V not added?
    Cure V should definitely have been added with the rest of the tier 5 spells.
    (1)

  4. #4
    Player saevel's Avatar
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    Saevel
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    Asura
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    RDM Lv 99
    No RDM doesn't need Cure V, Cure IV is already vastly superior and RDM gets that.

    If you want a better healing role then what you need it Curaga III and for that to happen SE would need to make it level 49 WHM.

    And before you start whining and crying here are the differences between Cure III / IV and V.

    Cure III = Base cure power 70, Cure power HP hard cap 340
    Cure IV = Base cure power 140, Cure power HP hard cap 640
    Cure V = Base cure power 210, Cure power HP hard cap 780

    Cure I ~ IV cure power is 1 Healing Magic Skill = 1 Cure power, Cure V is 5 Healing Magic Skill = 1 Cure power. This has the effect of making cure power harder to cap on Cure V then on the lower spells. And here is the sucker punch, RDM has trouble hitting Cure power cap on those lower spells because it's natural C- Healing Magic skill. In order for me to hit cure power cap as RDM/WHM I need to wear a lot of Vanya gear and work Cure potency in other slots, where as on WHM it's laughably easy to cap cure power.

    So if SE magically gave RDM Cure V, you all would be extremely disappointed and would still suck at doing your job. Those big numbers you see WHM do are a result of JP, Cure Potency II and so much natural Healing Magic Skill that they can easily pile on MND to raise Cure power for Cure V. Also they naturally go /SCH and get the weather bonus while RDM is forced to choose /SCH weather and LA goodiness or /WHM for Curaga II / Stona / AoE barspells. Needing Cure V is an argument from over five years ago when Cure IV healed for 450 HP and people in Abyssea had 3000 HP. The cure formula adjustments for Cure I ~ IV were targeted at fixing Single Target healing on non-WHM jobs.
    (1)
    Last edited by saevel; 05-31-2017 at 12:13 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Raelix
    Ragnarok's aftermath is only 5% crit rate, even with lv99, so there's almost no point in using Scourge, you just spam Resolution. Even then you become just a boring meathead DD.

    Apoc with both Catastrophe and Entropy gives you crazy sustain of both HP and MP. With the Haste aftermath you can wear a ton of -PDT and solo almost any 75 content.
    Doing damage is for WAR's, DRK is about soloing 75 content yo.....

  5. #5
    Player Smp's Avatar
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    Character
    Smp
    World
    Leviathan
    Main Class
    RDM Lv 99
    Quote Originally Posted by saevel View Post
    No RDM doesn't need Cure V, Cure IV is already vastly superior and RDM gets that.

    If you want a better healing role then what you need it Curaga III and for that to happen SE would need to make it level 49 WHM.

    And before you start whining and crying here are the differences between Cure III / IV and V.

    Cure III = Base cure power 70, Cure power HP hard cap 340
    Cure IV = Base cure power 140, Cure power HP hard cap 640
    Cure V = Base cure power 210, Cure power HP hard cap 780

    Cure I ~ IV cure power is 1 Healing Magic Skill = 1 Cure power, Cure V is 5 Healing Magic Skill = 1 Cure power. This has the effect of making cure power harder to cap on Cure V then on the lower spells. And here is the sucker punch, RDM has trouble hitting Cure power cap on those lower spells because it's natural C- Healing Magic skill. In order for me to hit cure power cap as RDM/WHM I need to wear a lot of Vanya gear and work Cure potency in other slots, where as on WHM it's laughably easy to cap cure power.

    So if SE magically gave RDM Cure V, you all would be extremely disappointed and would still suck at doing your job. Those big numbers you see WHM do are a result of JP, Cure Potency II and so much natural Healing Magic Skill that they can easily pile on MND to raise Cure power for Cure V. Also they naturally go /SCH and get the weather bonus while RDM is forced to choose /SCH weather and LA goodiness or /WHM for Curaga II / Stona / AoE barspells. Needing Cure V is an argument from over five years ago when Cure IV healed for 450 HP and people in Abyssea had 3000 HP. The cure formula adjustments for Cure I ~ IV were targeted at fixing Single Target healing on non-WHM jobs.
    My post is game feedback for SE. Not start a debate.

    I'm already aware of the stats.
    (0)

  6. #6
    Player Dale's Avatar
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    Mar 2011
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    802
    Character
    Jeremi
    World
    Quetzalcoatl
    Main Class
    PLD Lv 99
    Quote Originally Posted by saevel View Post
    No RDM doesn't need Cure V, Cure IV is already vastly superior and RDM gets that.

    If you want a better healing role then what you need it Curaga III and for that to happen SE would need to make it level 49 WHM.

    And before you start whining and crying here are the differences between Cure III / IV and V.

    Cure III = Base cure power 70, Cure power HP hard cap 340
    Cure IV = Base cure power 140, Cure power HP hard cap 640
    Cure V = Base cure power 210, Cure power HP hard cap 780

    Cure I ~ IV cure power is 1 Healing Magic Skill = 1 Cure power, Cure V is 5 Healing Magic Skill = 1 Cure power. This has the effect of making cure power harder to cap on Cure V then on the lower spells. And here is the sucker punch, RDM has trouble hitting Cure power cap on those lower spells because it's natural C- Healing Magic skill. In order for me to hit cure power cap as RDM/WHM I need to wear a lot of Vanya gear and work Cure potency in other slots, where as on WHM it's laughably easy to cap cure power.

    So if SE magically gave RDM Cure V, you all would be extremely disappointed and would still suck at doing your job. Those big numbers you see WHM do are a result of JP, Cure Potency II and so much natural Healing Magic Skill that they can easily pile on MND to raise Cure power for Cure V. Also they naturally go /SCH and get the weather bonus while RDM is forced to choose /SCH weather and LA goodiness or /WHM for Curaga II / Stona / AoE barspells. Needing Cure V is an argument from over five years ago when Cure IV healed for 450 HP and people in Abyssea had 3000 HP. The cure formula adjustments for Cure I ~ IV were targeted at fixing Single Target healing on non-WHM jobs.
    I tend to agree.

    Where Red Mage falls down in the healing department is it's lack of effective AoE healing. Accession has too long of a recast to be dependable and curaga II just doesn't cut it in a lot of fights. So giving Red mage cure V would solve nothing that I can see. This job is already an excellent single target healer.

    Now giving Red Mage the higher tier regens could make a real difference. So would giving them curaga III like you suggested.

    I'm not sure I would support such improvements though despite their usefulness. The Red Mage is not meant to be a primary healing class and should not be able to rival let's say a White mage considering that is suppose to be their specialty.

    Though I used to oppose this - I would settle for making spells like Haste II,Refresh III and Temper area spells so we can function more effectively as a support class.
    (0)
    Last edited by Dale; 06-13-2017 at 06:49 AM.

  7. #7
    Player saevel's Avatar
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    Saevel
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    Asura
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    RDM Lv 99
    Quote Originally Posted by Dale View Post
    I tend to agree.

    Where Red Mage falls down in the healing department is it's lack of effective AoE healing. Accession has too long of a recast to be dependable and curaga II just doesn't cut it in a lot of fights. So giving Red mage cure V would solve nothing that I can see. This job is already an excellent single target healer.

    Now giving Red Mage the higher tier regens could make a real difference. So would giving them curaga III like you suggested.

    I'm not sure I would support such improvements though despite their usefulness. The Red Mage is not meant to be a primary healing class and should not be able to rival let's say a White mage considering that is suppose to be their specialty.

    Though I used to oppose this - I would settle for making spells like Haste II,Refresh III and Temper area spells so we can function more effectively as a support class.
    Well I was only discussing the Cure V component, in reality there needs to be a whole batch of adjustments for the three healing jobs.

    Curaga (WHM) III -> Level 49
    Erase II (WHM) -> Level 99 -> Removes multiple buffs based on enfeebling magic skill
    Dispell II (RDM) -> Level 99 -> Removes multiple debuffs based on healing magic skill
    Light Arts (SCH) -> effects enabled even if sub but only at the subs level.
    Regen III (RDM added)
    Accession works on Haste naturally

    Now we've created a unique meta between WHM, SCH and RDM. WHM gets the LA boosts from /SCH along with the unique ability to remove multiple debuffs. RDM gets Regen III and has to choose between /WHM's Curaga III and /SCH's Regen potency and Arts. SCH's get to choose between the utility of /RDM and the power of Curaga III from /WHM. All three jobs become able to heal both melee and tank orientated parties but with a different set of Pro's and Con's that the group will need to tailor it's strategy around. RDM healer could provide Haste II enabling the BRD to sing a different song for the second haste, and the RDM would provide enfeebling support, but the RDM's barspells (BIG reason to use WHM) aren't as powerful and they are going to need MP support as the fight drags on. SCH's can provide powerful regen effects along with having cheaper spells and native access to weather boosts but like RDM have weaker barspells. WHM's still king of absolute healing with the ability to remove multiple debuffs from party members.
    (0)
    Quote Originally Posted by Raelix
    Ragnarok's aftermath is only 5% crit rate, even with lv99, so there's almost no point in using Scourge, you just spam Resolution. Even then you become just a boring meathead DD.

    Apoc with both Catastrophe and Entropy gives you crazy sustain of both HP and MP. With the Haste aftermath you can wear a ton of -PDT and solo almost any 75 content.
    Doing damage is for WAR's, DRK is about soloing 75 content yo.....

  8. #8
    Player Dale's Avatar
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    Mar 2011
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    802
    Character
    Jeremi
    World
    Quetzalcoatl
    Main Class
    PLD Lv 99
    Quote Originally Posted by saevel View Post
    Well I was only discussing the Cure V component, in reality there needs to be a whole batch of adjustments for the three healing jobs.

    Curaga (WHM) III -> Level 49
    Erase II (WHM) -> Level 99 -> Removes multiple buffs based on enfeebling magic skill
    Dispell II (RDM) -> Level 99 -> Removes multiple debuffs based on healing magic skill
    Light Arts (SCH) -> effects enabled even if sub but only at the subs level.
    Regen III (RDM added)
    Accession works on Haste naturally

    Now we've created a unique meta between WHM, SCH and RDM. WHM gets the LA boosts from /SCH along with the unique ability to remove multiple debuffs. RDM gets Regen III and has to choose between /WHM's Curaga III and /SCH's Regen potency and Arts. SCH's get to choose between the utility of /RDM and the power of Curaga III from /WHM. All three jobs become able to heal both melee and tank orientated parties but with a different set of Pro's and Con's that the group will need to tailor it's strategy around. RDM healer could provide Haste II enabling the BRD to sing a different song for the second haste, and the RDM would provide enfeebling support, but the RDM's barspells (BIG reason to use WHM) aren't as powerful and they are going to need MP support as the fight drags on. SCH's can provide powerful regen effects along with having cheaper spells and native access to weather boosts but like RDM have weaker barspells. WHM's still king of absolute healing with the ability to remove multiple debuffs from party members.
    I like your ideas for a dispel II that removes multiple enhancements. I also don't see the harm in giving Red Mage Regen III. So I can get behind those suggestions.

    Giving Red Mage access to Curaga III however I hesitate on - because that would make Red Mage an effective AoE healer when they are already powerful healers in their own right. For example: I'm not sure I would have ever bothered to level my White Mage if I could AoE heal well enough on my Red Mage.
    (0)
    Last edited by Dale; 07-16-2017 at 04:56 PM.

  9. #9
    Player chiefhunglo's Avatar
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    Sep 2015
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    Character
    Lordzphyr
    World
    Cerberus
    Main Class
    THF Lv 99
    Dude you don't play his character so you can't say he doesn't need this or that.
    (0)

  10. #10
    Player saevel's Avatar
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    Character
    Saevel
    World
    Asura
    Main Class
    RDM Lv 99
    I'm already aware of the stats.
    Then you wouldn't of made that post.
    (0)
    Quote Originally Posted by Raelix
    Ragnarok's aftermath is only 5% crit rate, even with lv99, so there's almost no point in using Scourge, you just spam Resolution. Even then you become just a boring meathead DD.

    Apoc with both Catastrophe and Entropy gives you crazy sustain of both HP and MP. With the Haste aftermath you can wear a ton of -PDT and solo almost any 75 content.
    Doing damage is for WAR's, DRK is about soloing 75 content yo.....

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