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  1. #21
    Player Kishr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2016
    Posts
    117
    Character
    Kishr
    World
    Asura
    Main Class
    BST Lv 99
    This turned into a shit storm quick.
    Just use a tiger and can stand at '7
    You guys need to get yourselves together if you getting all upset over such a small thing.
    I can solo ruan t2 and reisinjima t1 np in its current distance.
    (1)

  2. #22
    Player Nyarlko's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2015
    Posts
    1,523
    Character
    Nyarlko
    World
    Asura
    Main Class
    BST Lv 99
    Quote Originally Posted by Kishr View Post
    This turned into a shit storm quick.
    Just use a tiger and can stand at '7
    You guys need to get yourselves together if you getting all upset over such a small thing.
    I can solo ruan t2 and reisinjima t1 np in its current distance.
    That 7' will vary between races based on player model size (taru <> hume/mithra/elvaan <> galka), and pet model as well as you pointed out. Tiger is not always the best choice depending on target and tactics, so the range WILL vary. I don't really mind having to run in/out, but being able to function (sometimes / sort of) is not justification to leave what is effectively a race-based bug active. Dismissing the problem does nothing to address our inability to even play the job the way the devs intended when they shoved the nerf down our throats.
    (2)
    “That is not dead which can eternal lie, And with strange aeons even death may die.”

  3. #23
    Player Olor's Avatar
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    Mar 2011
    Posts
    2,134
    It made BST really unfun for me to be honest, I stopped playing it mostly... with trusts BLU was already stronger... this was the nail in the coffin for the useability of bst for most things.
    (4)
    http://photobucket.com/gallery/http://s19.photobucket.com/user/soulchld4/media/Olorinus-Signature.jpg.html

  4. #24
    Player Kishr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2016
    Posts
    117
    Character
    Kishr
    World
    Asura
    Main Class
    BST Lv 99
    Well, I never knew there was a race issue until I read this thread.
    Does anyone know the exact distance difference between races?
    (0)

  5. #25
    Player Kishr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2016
    Posts
    117
    Character
    Kishr
    World
    Asura
    Main Class
    BST Lv 99
    Double post Sorry,
    Can't see it being further than a half a yalm or even 1+.
    (0)

  6. #26
    Player Nyarlko's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2015
    Posts
    1,523
    Character
    Nyarlko
    World
    Asura
    Main Class
    BST Lv 99
    Quote Originally Posted by Kishr View Post
    Well, I never knew there was a race issue until I read this thread.
    Does anyone know the exact distance difference between races?
    IIRC, it's ~.15y between sizes. So, .3y diff between taru/galka.. This may sound insignificant, and it pretty much was pre-nerf, but with the post-nerf distance, it's the difference of being in or out of AOE range while at max distance with some pets. We are looking at ~5% diff between taru/galka now. That is significant enough that it affects gameplay.

    I'm pretty sure that the racial diff is actually universal for all spells/JAs, and has always been there, but the range for pretty much everything else in-game is high enough (15-21y) that it's not very noticeable (~.1%-1% in general.) It only became a problem once they dropped our range to a small fraction of what it was. IMO, if it is at all possible for the devs, they should increase the range for non-galkas to match up galkas. In addition to that bugfix, they should increase our JA range slightly so that we are able to fight at 90' from our pet on at least smaller-than-"large" size mobs. Somewhere around 9'-10' should be enough to pull this off.
    (0)
    “That is not dead which can eternal lie, And with strange aeons even death may die.”

  7. #27
    Player Rwolf's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Posts
    371
    Character
    Rwolf
    World
    Bismarck
    Main Class
    RDM Lv 99
    Sorry for the long post.

    Unpopular opinion, but I feel they should just revert the BST distance nerfs. It didn't change anything except making it frustrating to play.

    There better ways to enforce a job vision of master meleeing with the pet. Like making the master work in tandem with the pet. Positive reinforcement.

    Examples like:
    • Pet "sambas" where the master has to keep attacking to continually debuff the mob for pet to receive benefits. Allowing the master to be in melee gear but still get pet support.

    • Pet "Impetus" where the master's consecutive hits build up a buff on the pet.

    • Pet "Mana cede" with master TP.

    • Tame changes. If on the hate list for a mob and have a pet that intimidates the enemy, adds a killer effect similar sepulcher, arcane crest, etc.

    • Run Wild and Spur also giving buffs to master since BST master has no DD traits except Fencer.

    Examples are just to focus more that there are ways to make it strategic to melee. I don't have the number crunching for how adjustments need to be worked out.

    While it's not envisioned to be a backline job, it should still have reduced capacity at a distance. It would be a more fair balance to incorporate how ranged damage is based on distance.

    Remove the target pet function to use Ready/Sic moves. Introduce damage penalty starting at maybe 10 yalms based on distance between master and target.

    This game has always had a balance issue with slow and steady versus fast and risky. But it's the way the game penalizes failures and doesn't reward risky strategies that's an issue, not the jobs usually.
    (1)

  8. #28
    Player Nyarlko's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2015
    Posts
    1,523
    Character
    Nyarlko
    World
    Asura
    Main Class
    BST Lv 99
    Quote Originally Posted by Rwolf View Post
    Sorry for the long post.

    Unpopular opinion, but I feel they should just revert the BST distance nerfs. It didn't change anything except making it frustrating to play.

    There better ways to enforce a job vision of master meleeing with the pet. Like making the master work in tandem with the pet. Positive reinforcement.

    Examples like:
    • Pet "sambas" where the master has to keep attacking to continually debuff the mob for pet to receive benefits. Allowing the master to be in melee gear but still get pet support.

    • Pet "Impetus" where the master's consecutive hits build up a buff on the pet.

    • Pet "Mana cede" with master TP.

    • Tame changes. If on the hate list for a mob and have a pet that intimidates the enemy, adds a killer effect similar sepulcher, arcane crest, etc.

    • Run Wild and Spur also giving buffs to master since BST master has no DD traits except Fencer.

    Examples are just to focus more that there are ways to make it strategic to melee. I don't have the number crunching for how adjustments need to be worked out.

    While it's not envisioned to be a backline job, it should still have reduced capacity at a distance. It would be a more fair balance to incorporate how ranged damage is based on distance.

    Remove the target pet function to use Ready/Sic moves. Introduce damage penalty starting at maybe 10 yalms based on distance between master and target.

    This game has always had a balance issue with slow and steady versus fast and risky. But it's the way the game penalizes failures and doesn't reward risky strategies that's an issue, not the jobs usually.
    It's not that a full reversion would be unpopular, it's that we are all scared about the probable nerfs that would likely accompany it. And non-BSTs would probably freak out again even tho other DDs can outperform us at this point. ^^;; Why ask for something that you know will have nasty strings attached when you can ask for something smaller that should be enough to allow you to do what you are trying to do?

    I like the idea behind your JA suggestions, but I think it would make more sense to reverse them and have the pet buff the master. Having master actions buff the pet still feels like the pet is the primary focus and wouldn't make master melee really feel "required". Something like your "Impetus" would require the master being melee geared (which would effectively debuff pets and significantly lower damage output from them.) If the pet buffed the master instead though, it might push us into actually wanting to melee.

    The problem with the envisioned playstyle is that BST has absolutely zero incentive to melee alongside pet to outweigh the negatives of doing so. Yes, we'd need stuff like new traits/abilities to start with, but it's also currently impossible to gear both master/pet simultaneously due to gear design. This doesn't mean that they need to merely add new gear that breaks old stat budget limits to buff both (which would be the typical dev reaction based on precedent.) They would have to go back and adjust current gear if they really want to have an impact on how we play. That sounds like too much work to be approved though, so we should probably ask for something different that CAN be done.

    The ideal solution in my opinion would be to have gear stats apply to both master/pet. Doing so should be a lot simpler than most probably expect too, since that should be doable as a JT that applies a portion of master stats to pet and/or vice versa. Somewhere around 75% (single-direction) would probably be enough to allow us to function well enough in the manner they want us to play. Doing this as a passive JT would also avoid affecting the other pet jobs. ^^ Not sure which direction the stats should flow, and personally would be somewhat depressed if it was only master>pet since that would mean a ton of work replacing all my pet: gear w/ melee gear... Maybe reciprocal master<>pet but 50%? The value itself could be a valuable "adjustment knob" for the dev team as well since they would only have to look at one spot to adjust in case something caused our damage to get out of whack.
    (0)
    Last edited by Nyarlko; 05-27-2017 at 01:30 AM.
    “That is not dead which can eternal lie, And with strange aeons even death may die.”

  9. #29
    Player Rwolf's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Posts
    371
    Character
    Rwolf
    World
    Bismarck
    Main Class
    RDM Lv 99
    I don't why you reply quote a super long post to respond to someone.

    The suggestions are just random musing examples. We feel we know SE nerfed BST as a knee jerk reaction to playerbase anger. But if their vision is for BST to melee with their pets, my opinion is working in tandem and allowing it to be potent enough to compensate from the pet focus builds that occur now.

    I'm not gonna come up with ideas in detail because I'm not thoroughly excited to get picked apart by you.

    You can't say that a full reversion is unpopular and then take an alternate stance against it. It only proves my point that it's an unpopular opinion.

    My opinion reiterated is the distance changes should be reverted and if they want BST to melee with the pets. They should work in tandem.

    I'm all for hybrid armor but just as you have no faith based on experience of job changes. I have no faith in hybrid gear/buffs being properly done.
    (0)

  10. #30
    Player Kishr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2016
    Posts
    117
    Character
    Kishr
    World
    Asura
    Main Class
    BST Lv 99
    When you catch a cold from someone irl, and you know who it is, do you complain and demand they take it back or just deal with it.
    (0)

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