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  1. #51
    Player Rwolf's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Posts
    371
    Character
    Rwolf
    World
    Bismarck
    Main Class
    RDM Lv 99
    Quote Originally Posted by Kishr View Post
    The shit storm is back
    I still have yet to hear a decent argument against the current distance.
    If your doing dps with a charmers you have more issues than just the distance nerf.
    If you don't understand what Charmer's Merlin does for BST DPS currently and what happens when you don't use it. I don't know why you're arguing vehemently against mechanics you don't understand.
    (2)

  2. #52
    Player Rwolf's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Posts
    371
    Character
    Rwolf
    World
    Bismarck
    Main Class
    RDM Lv 99
    The current play style for BST is to be a buggy melee range SMN. Switching between weapons for -damage taken idle, sic/ready recast and Pet: TP bonus/ATK/ACC. Running in a singular line, back and forth, behind the pet. It does not fit the vision the devs state they want BST to be in.

    The distance solution was a kneejerk reaction. It satiated the angry masses who know little to nothing about the job. Only that they were sick and tired of BST only DD shouts and that they sat back there doing all that damage safely while being half AFK mashing a button. I'm not a fan of those tactics but I don't think it deserves the changes it got.

    Distance didn't weed out the "horribad BST bandwagoners". As soon as the update hit, it just went from BST/whatever to BST/NIN and bring a GEO and healer. It wasn't until subsequent updates (evasion, AoE, armor and weapons) that changed the shift away from this view that BST is the only safe reliable route. The issues were in the game's flaws at the time and BSTs circumvented it by updated during that time.

    Pull BST in range. Great. BST pre-pet changes was doing that anyway to boost DPS in between your pet gaining TP for moves. But there is no current incentive to melee, only penalties.
    • No melee Job Traits except Fencer.
    • Dependency on Charmer's Merlin to lower Sic/Ready charges.
    • Hybrid armor is generally only Accuracy and Haste.
    • No good attack pets of each of the 7 families to make use of Killer Instinct and no debuff version like the other circle jobs.
    • Master melee damage cannot make up the massive difference between Pet: TP Bonus and Sic/Ready delay weapons.
    I have no desire to convince BST hating players that shout their propaganda that any suggestions to change is an insidious plan to turn BST into a DD that just sits back and idles. That anger, wherever it's from is not going to dissipate. The feedback is for the devs who requested trying the distance changes out and providing feedback.

    For the Community Reps to focus on.
    The distance changes are not having BST players melee. Simply run in and out of range tactics. I feel personally it causes confusion to add a distance mechanic focused on the pet and not the target.

    Is this a compromise given current resources? Is it possible to look into alternative solutions? Ones that encourage melee and makes up the power difference lost from Pet: TP Bonus and/or Sic/Ready recast.
    (6)
    Last edited by Rwolf; 06-01-2017 at 10:01 AM. Reason: Didn't realize last line was cut off.

  3. #53
    Player Khiril's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2017
    Posts
    87
    Character
    Klihri
    World
    Asura
    Main Class
    THF Lv 99
    I really can't believe this is even an argument.

    Is max range for bst kind of against proper play style befitting a "melee" like bst: yes
    Is the current range absurdly low: yes

    Where's the disagreement here? If you can hit the mob you should be able to use ready sic and reward without fail, but you can't always, that's literally broken.
    (7)

  4. #54
    Player Songen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2016
    Location
    Windurst
    Posts
    327
    Character
    Horu
    World
    Odin
    Main Class
    MNK Lv 99
    i'd be happy if atleast changed the reward distance to 20'+, that way if the mobs AoE'd and i gotta get outta range, atleast i can heal the pet while i run
    (1)

  5. #55
    Player Kishr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2016
    Posts
    117
    Character
    Kishr
    World
    Asura
    Main Class
    BST Lv 99
    Quote Originally Posted by Rwolf View Post
    If you don't understand Charmer's Merlin does.
    I can't take this seriously.

    It's used for 1 second, not for dps.
    (2)

  6. #56
    Player Rwolf's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Posts
    371
    Character
    Rwolf
    World
    Bismarck
    Main Class
    RDM Lv 99
    Quote Originally Posted by Kishr View Post
    I can't take this seriously.

    It's used for 1 second, not for dps.
    Charmer's Merlin is a significant DPS increase. It lowers sic/ready recast by 5 seconds per charge. Without using it, that lost recast time adds up quickly.

    For example. In a 3 minute time span, a BST with 10 second recast on charges (using Charmer's Merlin) has potentially 18 charges in that time frame. Without just the axe, it drops to 12 charges in 3 minutes. That is lost Damage Per Second.
    (0)

  7. #57
    Player saevel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Posts
    2,345
    Character
    Saevel
    World
    Asura
    Main Class
    RDM Lv 99
    Quote Originally Posted by Rwolf View Post
    Charmer's Merlin is a significant DPS increase. It lowers sic/ready recast by 5 seconds per charge. Without using it, that lost recast time adds up quickly.

    For example. In a 3 minute time span, a BST with 10 second recast on charges (using Charmer's Merlin) has potentially 18 charges in that time frame. Without just the axe, it drops to 12 charges in 3 minutes. That is lost Damage Per Second.
    That sound your hearing .... that's the point whooshing by your head.
    (2)
    Quote Originally Posted by Raelix
    Ragnarok's aftermath is only 5% crit rate, even with lv99, so there's almost no point in using Scourge, you just spam Resolution. Even then you become just a boring meathead DD.

    Apoc with both Catastrophe and Entropy gives you crazy sustain of both HP and MP. With the Haste aftermath you can wear a ton of -PDT and solo almost any 75 content.
    Doing damage is for WAR's, DRK is about soloing 75 content yo.....

  8. #58
    Player Kishr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2016
    Posts
    117
    Character
    Kishr
    World
    Asura
    Main Class
    BST Lv 99
    Not for 'self melee dps' , I think is the misunderstanding here.
    Yes it removes 5 seconds,
    I think anyone that did any research at all knows that.
    Let's remove ourselves from personal attacks and stay on topic.
    (2)

  9. #59
    Player Kishr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2016
    Posts
    117
    Character
    Kishr
    World
    Asura
    Main Class
    BST Lv 99
    Quote Originally Posted by Sirmarki View Post
    aspects that BST's have to deal with is stuck pets, and pets going crazy and all over the place when multiple mobs are involved. I.e: Tenzen.
    I'll agree and at the same time disagree.

    I can solo tenzen on D

    With that said, yes tiger goes randomly to the Taru's.

    Just hit 'fight' again, pet attacks, which sucks, but something you must deal with, whichever mob drew more hate.

    It's just how that fight works.
    (1)

  10. #60
    Player Rwolf's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Posts
    371
    Character
    Rwolf
    World
    Bismarck
    Main Class
    RDM Lv 99
    Quote Originally Posted by Kishr View Post
    Not for 'self melee dps' , I think is the misunderstanding here.
    Yes it removes 5 seconds,
    I think anyone that did any research at all knows that.
    Let's remove ourselves from personal attacks and stay on topic.
    I'm personally attacking you because you jumped to snarl with misinformation? That's rich coming from someone who said I have issues if I think Charmer's affects DPS. Then tried to end it with being condescending about research.

    Charmer's affects Master DPS and Pet DPS. I took the time out to explain the importance of it. I'm not playing mind games about who is attacking who. I agree on not derailing the topic any further.
    (2)

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