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  1. #1
    Player Nyclia's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Posts
    80
    Character
    Nyclia
    World
    Phoenix
    Main Class
    DRG Lv 99

    The allowed distance between BST and pet for moves is ridiculous low now.

    When i did level Beastmaster while charming was still up to date, i never had a problem with fighting and using pets tp moves. I had fun, even when i did eat dust.
    But now since i try to master Beastmaster i was too far away to use Jug pets tp moves while me, the mob and my pet was building a 90° triangle. And that was no distance at all. Even if me, the mob and my pet would build a line, using Jug pets tp moves should be no problem at all. I don't know what SE was thinking about doing this. To limit the option to use jug pets tp moves to a "stand side by side/cheek to cheek" distance can't be justified by anything. That kills the free choice of positioning yourself, as long as the monster is in hitting range.
    Sorry, but i have no other choice but to ask SE to allow all bst commands, as long as me, the monster and my pet is in hitting range to the mob. No matter if its 90°, or less in my case, a triangle or a line of me, the mob and my pet... .
    (8)

  2. #2
    Player Songen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2016
    Location
    Windurst
    Posts
    327
    Character
    Horu
    World
    Odin
    Main Class
    MNK Lv 99
    Quote Originally Posted by Nyclia View Post
    When i did level Beastmaster while charming was still up to date, i never had a problem with fighting and using pets tp moves. I had fun, even when i did eat dust.
    But now since i try to master Beastmaster i was too far away to use Jug pets tp moves while me, the mob and my pet was building a 90° triangle. And that was no distance at all. Even if me, the mob and my pet would build a line, using Jug pets tp moves should be no problem at all. I don't know what SE was thinking about doing this. To limit the option to use jug pets tp moves to a "stand side by side/cheek to cheek" distance can't be justified by anything. That kills the free choice of positioning yourself, as long as the monster is in hitting range.
    Sorry, but i have no other choice but to ask SE to allow all bst commands, as long as me, the monster and my pet is in hitting range to the mob. No matter if its 90°, or less in my case, a triangle or a line of me, the mob and my pet... .
    They won't do it, since they purposely nerfed everything your asking for, bst used to be the pimped job, however they nerfed because of the rare power it has if used right, its pretty much the AC smn in what people loved/hated.

    As far as it goes, you gotta be 7-10' of the pet (Depending on which pet you have) or its a no go
    (0)

  3. #3
    Player Sirmarki's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Posts
    791
    Character
    Sirmarki
    World
    Asura
    Main Class
    WHM Lv 99
    From what I gather, the idea of the nerf was because the Beastmaster was originally designed to be fighting alongside their pet. I can understand that concept.

    The problem is that you can be fighting the monster alongside your pet and you STILL get 'out of range' messages when trying to use a ready/reward move. This is especially true when fighting larger monsters.

    So, In my opinion, I think the range should be altered to compensate for that issue.
    (1)

  4. #4
    Player Nyarlko's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2015
    Posts
    1,523
    Character
    Nyarlko
    World
    Asura
    Main Class
    BST Lv 99
    Quote Originally Posted by Sirmarki View Post
    From what I gather, the idea of the nerf was because the Beastmaster was originally designed to be fighting alongside their pet. I can understand that concept.

    The problem is that you can be fighting the monster alongside your pet and you STILL get 'out of range' messages when trying to use a ready/reward move. This is especially true when fighting larger monsters.

    So, In my opinion, I think the range should be altered to compensate for that issue.
    Not "designed", but "intended". The design allowed for long range play for ~12-13 years. They still haven't changed the stat budget on BST gear to allow for both player/pet to be viable in combat simultaneously, or added any JA/JT support for master melee, or given us any actual incentive to follow their gameplan.

    The range nerf was a kneejerk reaction to complaints about BST being OP compared to other jobs. The statements about what their intentions for how BST should be played were excuses to justify a job change this large. IMO, the response did nothing to address the issues complained about other than make it annoying enough to play BST that most of the bandwagoners dropped out. Everyone else has caught up (or surpassed) BST at this point though, so it's about time that the nerf is at least partially reversed. A hard 10y range (adjusted for player model size) should be enough to at least allow us to melee 90' from our pet on midsize/large targets, and shouldn't cause any negative issues.

    Did you know that the current range for Tarutaru vs Galka varies by ~.2y due to the size of player models? That's enough to allow a Galka to be outside of an AOE range while the Taru is inside of it. Pretty sure that the racial imbalance was always there, but it was exacerbated by the drastic range reduction.
    (3)
    Last edited by Nyarlko; 05-19-2017 at 11:03 PM.
    “That is not dead which can eternal lie, And with strange aeons even death may die.”

  5. #5
    Player Selindrile's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Posts
    628
    Character
    Selindrile
    World
    Asura
    Main Class
    BLU Lv 99
    Quote Originally Posted by Selindrile View Post
    Bst have frequently been not meleeing with their pets for years and years, anyone remember that everyone's favorite XP target for bst for ages was bombs because they blew themselves up? They certainly didn't melee on those. This change is tantamount to redefining the job, even if that wasn't it's original design, it's not like not-meleeing on bst is anything new.

    Remember when the devs said ninjas weren't supposed to be tanks, but then the community tanked with NIN, then the devs released tanking gear for NIN? Yeah, that was cool, I mean, the devs have claimed to be asking for feedback, isn't deciding to play it as a backline job an example of feedback? I mean why bother claiming to ask for feedback if you're going to do the opposite of what the players obviously want?
    I said this at the time they nerfed it, and I'll say it again.
    (4)

  6. #6
    Player Zeargi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Currently: Windurst
    Posts
    743
    Quote Originally Posted by Selindrile View Post
    I said this at the time they nerfed it, and I'll say it again.
    This is 100% accurate. If they wanted BST to Melee with their pets, then there should be more tools to allow them to do so via Gear and a re-envisioning of BST's JA/JT. In the beginning, BST used to use Scythes just as much as Axes, so it always bothered me that they got the Fencer trait when there was no Shield to off-hand for BST to make it worthwhile. Not to mention their shield skill is awful. Even more confusing, why they were the only job that has a 'Circle' ability that wasn't learned by leveling like the other jobs and stuck behind merits. We've offered tons of ideas to the Devs on things that could help make BST better and put it on the road for playing as "intended", but if you're going to ignore it then...

    A while ago I posted these, not perfect but still something to toy around with:

    Quote Originally Posted by Zeargi View Post
    BST needs to get the following JT:
    Accuracy Bonus III: 30, 50, 75
    Max HP Boost IV: 35, 55, 75, 95
    Shield Defense Bonus: 85

    The Job Trait: Beast Healer needs to change to include: Copies 1 status enhancing effect per rank in merits to Pet When Using Reward

    Job Ability that needs to be Add:

    Empathy's Bond: Decreases DMG Taken By Master and Increases Accuracy for Pet and Master the closer they are together
    Level: 90
    Recast: 3m
    Effect Time: 45s~1m

    And 2 or more Shields designed for BST EXCLUSIVELY need to be added. They also need to change BST Shield ranks from E to C.
    (2)
    Last edited by Zeargi; 05-20-2017 at 07:21 AM.
    "What is a man? A miserable little pile of secrets. But enough talk... Have at you!" Lord Dracula - [Castlevania:SotN]

  7. #7
    Player Nyclia's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Posts
    80
    Character
    Nyclia
    World
    Phoenix
    Main Class
    DRG Lv 99
    I can totally accept that i shall fight alongside my pet.
    But i EXPECT to be able run around the mob, while i am in hitting range and STILL be able to use my pets abilities! If that is not possible, it's TOTALLY UNACCEPTABLE!

    What would PUP do, if he couldnt move the mob from it's puppet?
    How should my DRGs Wyvern heal me in any situation with such a tiny range? Even if DRG can't be considered as "overpowered". Where is the fairness if you compared these jobs?

    Or what with SMN? Their defense shouldn't allow to fight so close to the mob. They would be killed in a few hits. And look at their possible damage. I have seen about 36k dmg on the final boss of Rhapsody of Vanadiel with Ifrit. But it's fair to nerf BST that way... .

    How about to do the same to them as you did to BST SE? If you look so much on overpowered pet jobs.

    P.S.: Yes, i remember the time as charming BST. It was the best time i had on it, because i could lvl on my own pace. It was great, even if i did eat dust alot of times. And i really mean alot. I soloed BST to 96, until i found no more book camps that made it worthwhile. But then SE decides to boost jug pet BSTs and i had to get used to it. Ok~. Now they nerf BST like this, after i accepted that the charming BST seemed to be no longer wanted.
    God damn it SE. Please don't put so many stones in my way on a job i loved to solo, only because other player overdid it! They should work on their social abilities and common sense not to overdo it and make you nerf the job to the current situation. >.<
    (0)
    Last edited by Nyclia; 05-20-2017 at 09:13 AM.

  8. #8
    Player Jerbob's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Posts
    245
    Character
    Jeral
    World
    Phoenix
    Main Class
    WHM Lv 99
    Nyclia has my full support. The nerf was ridiculous - completely altering a key job mechanic in an attempt to "restore job balance" is a sledgehammer approach that should never have even been considered, let alone implemented. The fact that it's broken as well makes it inexcusable.
    (3)

  9. #9
    Player Songen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2016
    Location
    Windurst
    Posts
    327
    Character
    Horu
    World
    Odin
    Main Class
    MNK Lv 99
    one main issue is, if they increase the distance, theres a high likely hood that they'll increase the recast of charges along with reducing the maximum capacity much like they did with cor's quick draw
    (0)

  10. #10
    Player Nyarlko's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2015
    Posts
    1,523
    Character
    Nyarlko
    World
    Asura
    Main Class
    BST Lv 99
    Quote Originally Posted by Songen View Post
    one main issue is, if they increase the distance, theres a high likely hood that they'll increase the recast of charges along with reducing the maximum capacity much like they did with cor's quick draw
    No, that is not likely in any way. Reducing Ready charges would also require reworking many jugs, and extra work tends to pull the "that would cost a version update" response they've been using recently. If they required a downside, then it would likely be a direct nerf to ready move damage. I'm pretty sure that they don't want to do that since if they felt that damage output was actually out of whack, they would have done that instead of the JA range nerf. We may have shorter Ready recast than SMN BPs, but over time (even just 3-5min,) SMN actually outpaces us in comparable gear. (It's been like this even before the nerf btw.) At this point, nearly every other job has caught up to BST in damage output anyways, so any sort of damage nerf would be extremely uncalled for anyway.

    I believe that they should simply increase the range slightly from the current ~6' to 9' or 10', with built-in adjustments to ensure racial parity. We don't really NEED a full reversion, but the current state simply sucks, so I'm willing to compromise. ^^
    (2)
    “That is not dead which can eternal lie, And with strange aeons even death may die.”

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