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  1. #1
    Player VoiceMemo's Avatar
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    Mar 2011
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    Character
    Voicememo
    World
    Asura
    Main Class
    BRD Lv 99

    Ballad overwrite

    I know this has been brought up before, but it's still an issue. Because of the shorter duration of ballad, there is still the overwrite problem when other songs have longer duration.

    IE. Acc, Acc, March, March all at 5 minutes. Ballad having 4 min 30 sec duration.
    Casting ballad 3 will push the lowest remaining duration song off, but if you cast ballad 2 right after ballad 3, ballad 2 will overwrite ballad 3. Under normal song duration you could wait 31 seconds before casting ballad 3, so that ballad 3 isn't the lowest time remaining, but the issue is when NT songs are performed. You would have to wait 5 min 31 sec to overwrite a non ballad song.

    My suggestion is make ballads, only ballads specific like haste. IE 1 cannot overwrite 2 or 3, 2 cannot overwrite 3. The lesser ballad cannot overwrite the greater ballad. In this way it would solve the ballad issue without the need to add either all songs or ballad+ on equipment.
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    Last edited by VoiceMemo; 04-09-2017 at 11:19 PM.

  2. #2
    Player Songen's Avatar
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    Dec 2016
    Location
    Windurst
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    327
    Character
    Horu
    World
    Odin
    Main Class
    MNK Lv 99
    your ballad having 4min 30sec is your gears fault, what that means is your casting your songs in a incorrect order. if you lock out songs from overwriting each other, those songs that need to be casted in a order (Or out of order due to mobs dispeling your party and your not sure whats left or everyone has something different on at the time) won't land correctly, infact, you might think you've casted all 3 songs of ballad on someone and you've only got one to land because of the failure to land because of a higher teir blocking a lower teir

    The duration for ALL party based songs are the same (2 minutes). both duration gear and song+1 equipment extend song duration. pretty much what you've done is replaced one of your song duration or song+1 equips with a ballad +1 or it could be your ranged equip third/fouth song doesn't match your 1st/2nd ranged equip.
    Gjallarhorn and daurdabla have a slightly different duration count since gjalla is 40% duration increase when its song+4 and daurad is 30% duration increase.

    This is entirely you being lazy and not changing your casting order.
    (0)

  3. #3
    Player VoiceMemo's Avatar
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    Character
    Voicememo
    World
    Asura
    Main Class
    BRD Lv 99
    The times I posted are only examples. If you wish I can post my EXACT times for a REMA brd, but I was posting as an example.

    I have been brd for over 12 years, so I think I know the job well as anyone can.
    (0)
    Last edited by VoiceMemo; 04-09-2017 at 11:55 PM.

  4. #4
    Player Songen's Avatar
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    Dec 2016
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    Windurst
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    Character
    Horu
    World
    Odin
    Main Class
    MNK Lv 99
    Quote Originally Posted by VoiceMemo View Post
    The times I posted are only examples. If you wish I can post my EXACT times for a REMA brd, but I was posting as an example.

    I have been brd for over 12 years, so I think I know the job well as anyone can. So for you to say such things means you don't know what IE means(In Example).
    and my reply is exactly ment towards that IE, whether its ballad or madrigal or w/e i already explained the duration is 2minutes, its about which order you do it and understand from the start which song should go where. if your a brd for 12 years and you don't understand this and having so many problems while other bards already figured it out, then try learning the job for once.

    EDIT: I noticed you changed your first post
    (0)
    Last edited by Songen; 04-09-2017 at 11:58 PM.

  5. #5
    Player VoiceMemo's Avatar
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    Character
    Voicememo
    World
    Asura
    Main Class
    BRD Lv 99
    Quote Originally Posted by Songen View Post
    and my reply is exactly ment towards that IE, whether its ballad or madrigal or w/e i already explained the duration is 2minutes, its about which order you do it and understand from the start which song should go where. if your a brd for 12 years and you don't understand this and having so many problems while other bards already figured it out, then try learning the job for once.
    Well clearly we disagree so I'll add you to my forum blist.
    (0)

  6. #6
    Player Songen's Avatar
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    Dec 2016
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    Windurst
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    Character
    Horu
    World
    Odin
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    MNK Lv 99
    Quote Originally Posted by VoiceMemo View Post
    Well clearly we disagree so I'll add you to my forum blist.
    put yourself there while your at it
    (0)

  7. #7
    Player detlef's Avatar
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    Mar 2011
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    1,640
    Character
    Philemon
    World
    Valefor
    Main Class
    BRD Lv 99
    This is a real issue. And it's even worse in a Troubadour situation. We already have issues where some songs have wonky durations like Madrigal (since you get a +1 on back). But Ballad is particularly noticeable because you generally want to cast them last. I think the best solution is to put Ballad +2 on Empyrean legs and I'll bet that's exactly what we will see in the future when SE gets around to adding +2/+3 versions of the armor.
    (0)

  8. #8
    Player Songen's Avatar
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    Character
    Horu
    World
    Odin
    Main Class
    MNK Lv 99
    Maybe change the over all system that it'll always work from the longest duration instead of shortest duration. that way even if you screw up, you can simply cast in what ever order you want without worry of which spell will overwrite what (This option isn't as much recommended since NT 's duration is limited to be casted while NT is activated, so in essence you'll risk overwriting a 15min song with a 5-7min song)

    or as long as NT is on (Since it works by duration of the active ability rather than a single cast and this specific suggestion is aimed to work for NT only), what ever is casted while NT is on and the highest duration during NT will remain static across all 4 songs without being reduced if a another song is casted unless that song is longer than NT duration (Condition:for example-Which is pretty much when NT static falls below 6min ish and your new duration is 7min), however for the duration of the NT static timer, all songs will overwrite from the highest duration if your normal duration is less without removing the NT static timer (Unless the previous condition is met)

    Honestly feels like the system is based on 2 song system back at 75. something needs to be done to bring it upto lv119 standards
    (0)
    Last edited by Songen; 04-11-2017 at 07:49 PM.

  9. #9
    Player VoiceMemo's Avatar
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    Mar 2011
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    Character
    Voicememo
    World
    Asura
    Main Class
    BRD Lv 99
    For those who wish to discuss this further and not be condescending like Songen here is my example situation.

    party of 11, composed of

    party 1 Tank, Whm, Geo, brd, DD, DD
    party 2 DD, DD, DD, cor, whm

    Brd Soul voices and CC's NT
    Than pianissmo's ballad 3 on whm, cannot put any more ballads as ballad 2 would overwrite ballad 3

    Brd then swaps to 2nd party, sings madrigal, madrigal, attack, daurdabla song1, daurdabla song 2, honor, victory
    again pianissmo's ballad 3 on whm, and cannot put any more ballads as they would overwrite ballad 3

    NT has worn by now and it is still impossible to overwrite other songs with ballads and because of the amount of songs it is impossible to have whm stand away
    from the dd so that they do not receive the dd songs, as the max time for NT is 1 min 20 seconds with max NT merits you can get 15, maybe 16 songs off when you include swap time, pianissimo ja time and if swap is slow NT will not last long enough to get the 2nd party with full duration songs.

    This is why I think ballads should act like hastes where the higher one cannot be overwritten by a lower one, thereby forcing one of the other songs off. After NT wears soul voice and cc still have a good 1 min 40 seconds left. I would like to apply 3 ballads 2 marches on myself so I would have more mp refresh to assist healing/na'ing alliance.

    It makes no sense to reorder songs in this case to focus on ballads first as this is all about DD songs, dd's would benefit more from songs with longer duration, but to help support it would be good to have ballads on, but the song duration prevents this.

    The only other solutions are to add more ballad + gear on slots that currently don't have all song or song duration on them. Adding more all song gear would just keep the ballad to other song gap the same. The current gap is 27% between acc/march compared to ballad duration.

    Or to increase the base duration of ballads by 27%, 32.4s.

    Ballad +2 on empyrean legs is not enough to bridge the gap between other songs. To match other songs legs would have to be Ballad +3.7
    (0)
    Last edited by VoiceMemo; 04-18-2017 at 09:56 PM.

  10. #10
    Player Songen's Avatar
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    Windurst
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    Character
    Horu
    World
    Odin
    Main Class
    MNK Lv 99
    Quote Originally Posted by VoiceMemo View Post
    For those who wish to discuss this further and not be condescending like Songen here is my example situation.

    party of 11, composed of

    party 1 Tank, Whm, Geo, brd, DD, DD
    party 2 DD, DD, DD, cor, whm

    Brd Soul voices and CC's NT
    Than pianissmo's ballad 3 on whm, cannot put any more ballads as ballad 2 would overwrite ballad 3

    Brd then swaps to 2nd party, sings madrigal, madrigal, attack, daurdabla song1, daurdabla song 2, honor, victory
    again pianissmo's ballad 3 on whm, and cannot put any more ballads as they would overwrite ballad 3

    NT has worn by now and it is still impossible to overwrite other songs with ballads and because of the amount of songs it is impossible to have whm stand away
    from the dd so that they do not receive the dd songs, as the max time for NT is 1 min 20 seconds with max NT merits you can get 15, maybe 16 songs off when you include swap time, pianissimo ja time and if swap is slow NT will not last long enough to get the 2nd party with full duration songs.

    This is why I think ballads should act like hastes where the higher one cannot be overwritten by a lower one, thereby forcing one of the other songs off. After NT wears soul voice and cc still have a good 1 min 40 seconds left. I would like to apply 3 ballads 2 marches on myself so I would have more mp refresh to assist healing/na'ing alliance.

    It makes no sense to reorder songs in this case to focus on ballads first as this is all about DD songs, dd's would benefit more from songs with longer duration, but to help support it would be good to have ballads on, but the song duration prevents this.

    The only other solutions are to add more ballad + gear on slots that currently don't have all song or song duration on them. Adding more all song gear would just keep the ballad to other song gap the same. The current gap is 27% between acc/march compared to ballad duration.

    Or to increase the base duration of ballads by 27%, 32.4s.

    Ballad +2 on empyrean legs is not enough to bridge the gap between other songs. To match other songs legs would have to be Ballad +3.7
    (Before you write off what i am writing, atleast read the last 2 paragraphs)

    i have no want to be condescending,i am not trying to belittle, or shame or over all say your idea isn't bad,infact it does have alot of merit and can be one of the best new idea's around however that merit holds a heavy limit for all brds.

    My only concern is the bards who want all 3 ballads on outside of big events, your method blocks ballads full stop should ballad 3 land, not everyone is a overpowered bard, i am trying think of the entire player base rather than a few (And i say a few because there are only a few brds like yourself who have the gear plus can do what you mentioned exactly correctly)
    I am trying to be realistic for bards in general,you are talking from the prospective of NT, only in high teir events will such a tactic will it be used where you plan such a massive amount of songs over alliances within a short period.

    If all you want is to land ballad 3, then make your ballad 3 the last song you sing (Buff all DD's fully then make the last song you sing ballad 3 for the whm). it will land for sure for the whm since songs always overwrite the lowest delay song, even if the delay is 15mins, any new songs will overwrite that 15 min song since its the lowest delay on the list.

    my example falls to you too "After NT wears soul voice and cc still have a good 1 min 40 seconds left. I would like to apply 3 ballads 2 marches on myself so I would have more mp refresh to assist healing/na'ing alliance."
    Should you by accident land ballad 3 on yourself first, you'll be unable to achieve all 3 ballad songs since #3 blocks #2 and #1.

    I am honestly not trying to make problems mate, what i would suggest tho is the ability "Tenuto" affect party members too rather than the brd casting it only, this will grant your non overwrite requirement on anyone fully and can actually lock all song types meaning you could in essence lock whm first with all 3 ballads then go nuts with melee buffs.

    You can even lock defencive songs on the pld first then go nuts boosting your melees, it is a 5 second ability however considering the delay between songs, you might lose 1-2 second only depending on your fast cast (which odviously is capped for you)and the natural delay between songs.
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