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  1. #21
    Player VoiceMemo's Avatar
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    Mar 2011
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    546
    Character
    Voicememo
    World
    Asura
    Main Class
    BRD Lv 99
    Quote Originally Posted by Nyarlko View Post
    I am trying to figure out why Ballad has a shorter duration than other songs.. As far as I know, ALL buff songs have a base duration of 120sec. The maximum amount of Song+1 (bgwiki says its +8 currently) should be the same across March/Minuet/Ballad at least... The only commonly used buff exceptions to the current Song+8 limit would be Madrigal due to Ambuscade cape, no? Yes, Mousai+1 set bumps a few songs up to +9, but HQs are wallet-killers and when was the last time you were called on for Mambo or Minne? :x
    I posted this early on:

    The only other solutions are to add more ballad + gear on slots that currently don't have all song or song duration on them. Adding more all song gear would just keep the ballad to other song gap the same. The current gap is 27% between acc/march compared to ballad duration.

    Or to increase the base duration of ballads by 27%, 32.4s.

    Ballad +2 on empyrean legs is not enough to bridge the gap between other songs. To match other songs legs would have to be Ballad +3.7

    I will elaborate further:

    Ballad max duration comes from Carnwenhan 60s(120 x 50%), Gjallarhorn 48s(120 x 40%), Moonbow whistle +1 36s(120x30%), Fili Hongreline +1 14.4(14 se tends to round down)(120x12%), Fili rhingrave +1 12s (120 x 10%), Brisoso sillpers +3 18s(120 x 15%)

    120 + 60 + 48 + 36 + 14 + 12 + 18 = 308s

    It is because other songs can use the duration legs inyanga shalwar +2 (120 x 17%), but for ballad potency you must use the Fili rhingrave +1. This results in a minimal 7% difference in duration to all songs, add in the fact that for marches you get an additional +1 from Fili manchettes +1, adds another 10% for a 17% difference for marches. Add in intarabus's cape(120 x 10%) and Fili calot +1 (120 x10%) for madrigal results in a 27% difference in duration from ballad.

    Basically the difference in duration comes down to the use of ballad legs or duration legs and the fact other slots have specific song +1 attributes
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    Last edited by VoiceMemo; 10-08-2017 at 05:07 PM.

  2. #22
    Player Nyarlko's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2015
    Posts
    1,523
    Character
    Nyarlko
    World
    Asura
    Main Class
    BST Lv 99
    Quote Originally Posted by VoiceMemo View Post
    I posted this early on:

    The only other solutions are to add more ballad + gear on slots that currently don't have all song or song duration on them. Adding more all song gear would just keep the ballad to other song gap the same. The current gap is 27% between acc/march compared to ballad duration.

    Or to increase the base duration of ballads by 27%, 32.4s.

    Ballad +2 on empyrean legs is not enough to bridge the gap between other songs. To match other songs legs would have to be Ballad +3.7

    I will elaborate further:

    Ballad max duration comes from Carnwenhan 60s(120 x 50%), Gjallarhorn 48s(120 x 40%), Moonbow whistle +1 36s(120x30%), Fili Hongreline +1 14.4(14 se tends to round down)(120x12%), Fili rhingrave +1 12s (120 x 10%), Brisoso sillpers +3 18s(120 x 15%)

    120 + 60 + 48 + 36 + 14 + 12 + 18 = 308s

    It is because other songs can use the duration legs inyanga shalwar +2 (120 x 17%), but for ballad potency you must use the Fili rhingrave +1. This results in a minimal 7% difference in duration to all songs, add in the fact that for marches you get an additional +1 from Fili manchettes +1, adds another 10% for a 17% difference for marches. Add in intarabus's cape(120 x 10%) and Fili calot +1 (120 x10%) for madrigal results in a 27% difference in duration from ballad.

    Basically the difference in duration comes down to the use of ballad legs or duration legs and the fact other slots have specific song +1 attributes
    So really, what it comes down to is just a conflict between duration and ballad+1 on the legs. If it was in a different slot, then the only things ahead of it would be the few songs that can hit +9 currently. Could be solved by adding a ballad+ earring/ring, which should be simple enough to implement that it could actually happen. They could also add duration+15/+17 to the much expected Empyrean 119+2/+3 if/when it happens. I'd much prefer a bit of simplification for the 3-4 song model at the system level, but I'm not dumb enough to expect that to happen.

    Technically, couldn't you also sacrifice potency to match/exceed the difference right now? Marsyas would add an extra +10% above ghorn, and could use the Inyanga+2 pants for ballad as well. That should only leave Madrigal/Prelude ahead due to Ambuscade cape. FAR from an attractive option, but feels like the kind of "Working as Intended" response you'd probably get from the devs (if the devs were able to read this.)
    (0)
    “That is not dead which can eternal lie, And with strange aeons even death may die.”

  3. #23
    Player VoiceMemo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
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    546
    Character
    Voicememo
    World
    Asura
    Main Class
    BRD Lv 99
    Quote Originally Posted by Nyarlko View Post
    So really, what it comes down to is just a conflict between duration and ballad+1 on the legs. If it was in a different slot, then the only things ahead of it would be the few songs that can hit +9 currently. Could be solved by adding a ballad+ earring/ring, which should be simple enough to implement that it could actually happen. They could also add duration+15/+17 to the much expected Empyrean 119+2/+3 if/when it happens. I'd much prefer a bit of simplification for the 3-4 song model at the system level, but I'm not dumb enough to expect that to happen.

    Technically, couldn't you also sacrifice potency to match/exceed the difference right now? Marsyas would add an extra +10% above ghorn, and could use the Inyanga+2 pants for ballad as well. That should only leave Madrigal/Prelude ahead due to Ambuscade cape. FAR from an attractive option, but feels like the kind of "Working as Intended" response you'd probably get from the devs (if the devs were able to read this.)
    If you cared about duration only yes maysra and legs could be used but you're sacrificing +5 to ballad which if you are singing 3x ballad you're sacrificing 15mp/tic and only receiving 1+3, 2+3, 3+3 = 15mp/tic (if you have moonbow necklace +1) which is half the mp/tic(30m/tic) with gjallarhorn and legs. Imo sacrificing 50% of the potency is not worth the duration.

    Bard to be best is REMA, Relic = Quality of songs, Empy = Quantity of songs, and Mythic = Duration of songs, Aeonic = Special march, before Aeonic I called this the trifecta, quality, quantity and duration. Now it's trifecta + honor + neck +1.
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    Last edited by VoiceMemo; 10-08-2017 at 08:24 PM.

  4. #24
    Player Apennyworth's Avatar
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    Apr 2013
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    3
    Character
    Apennyworth
    World
    Asura
    Main Class
    WHM Lv 99
    If a whm has 2 marches 2 minuets with a duration to long for 2 ballads to stick (5min30+), why not just sing minuetx2(with no duration gear)>2 ballads?
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  5. #25
    Player VoiceMemo's Avatar
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    Mar 2011
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    546
    Character
    Voicememo
    World
    Asura
    Main Class
    BRD Lv 99
    Quote Originally Posted by Apennyworth View Post
    If a whm has 2 marches 2 minuets with a duration to long for 2 ballads to stick (5min30+), why not just sing minuetx2(with no duration gear)>2 ballads?
    So your solution is to gimp the minuet timers of dd's, so mages can get ballads? Why is the solution always to gimp rather than boost? Boosting the base duration of ballad would not hurt the all songs+ gear and would fix the current ballad overwrite issue.
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  6. #26
    Player DarkValefor's Avatar
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    Mar 2011
    Posts
    61
    Character
    Kukiki
    World
    Carbuncle
    Main Class
    DNC Lv 99
    If you redo the minuets on the mage only you aren't gimping anyone, but I was thinking about just not using the ambuscade legs for minuets tbh and use the empy legs instead, you can still reach 10 min songs so still full time Marcato and you get extra STR bonus from empy armor
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