Nerf SMN

[Khiril]

Alright look, I know you're famous for this, but it's time to realize something.

There are more aeonics made in a single day since the Geo"fix" than were made in an entire month the way it was.

This is beyond disgustingly broken. Look if you want people to care, SMN needed to be "fixed" already, no more delay. At this rate everyone will have all 16 aeonics by summer and reisenjima will officially be dead content if you don't move your *****.

((and you should take away every Aeonic built with Astral Conduit to prove a point that exploiting something so broken has consequences))

[Songen]

You realise your title is ASKING for summoner to be nerfed right? Your title pretty much means you think smn sucks and you want it nerfed.

Aeonic isn't easy if you don't have the right group or able to make random groups, only true endgame LSes have it extremely easy to get, and even that takes time for them and they actually make the effort to level jobs, JP them and equip em to be event ready, so yeah, they kinda deserve it.

Personally i'd be happy with one aeonic at this point but its odvious that ain't happening soon because ITS NOT EASY TO GET UNLESS YOUR ALREADY IN A GREAT GROUP.
Also, aeonic isn't ment for massive DDing, nor built for advancing a specific job's abilitys.
very few aeonics actually have WSs that don't suck and they don't get a 10-40% increase in the appropriate WS dmg like REM weapons.

They are designed to speed tp build while boosting SC and MB dmg (Which means its gonna offer very little for melee burns except for store tp and tp bonus and magic dmg (Which is more for SCs too).

SMN is already a strong job, and the nerf they did to BP tp scaling before did cause some problems, however they still deal a great deal and are still used for a major amount of events. they are still stronger and more damage dealing than alot of DD jobs, they buff at a higher rate and duration than alot of mage jobs, they even have their own unique buffs and debuffs as well.

So before you rant on about how smn needs a boost because of aeonic (Which is so unrelivent), go and see what a real smn can do and you'll realise they are stronger than you think. Get a mythic, 40-60% of jobs get a mythic to make em stronger than everyone else, smn's mythic AGIII does just that too. if you want to do even more dmg, sub sch, get yourself a "Seidr Cotehardie" and MB along with your smn, you won't lose any mp with that body piece when MBing a non resiste spell and they dmg is very high if you have sch subed for dark arts. 80% of smn staffs which are aimed for avatar buffs come with nuking capabilitys for the smn itself too. all honesty "Seidr Cotehardie" probably makes smn OP if you use it correctly

[Afania]

Ah, this kind of thread will always follow by a group of people playing these jobs against it. Also Songen completely misunderstood the point but I think my point applies to other anti nerf people.

Aeonic isn't easy if you don't have the right group or able to make random groups, only true endgame LSes have it extremely easy to get, and even that takes time for them and they actually make the effort to level jobs, JP them and equip em to be event ready, so yeah, they kinda deserve it.

What happened here is the "rich gets more rich, poor gets more poor" scenario. You either level SMN, merc aeonic, make 50-100m a day or you don't. Once you reach the point to make gil that easily, you can literally gear up any job with full REMA/DM aug/HQ in a few weeks and face roll any content with any setup.

If you make the effort to lv other jobs, JP them and equip them to be event ready, you aren't going to take nearly as much advantage in terms of character progression.

It can sound salty but I'm just pointing out facts to people that may not be aware of it.

Personally i'd be happy with one aeonic at this point but its odvious that ain't happening soon because ITS NOT EASY TO GET UNLESS YOUR ALREADY IN A GREAT GROUP.
Also, aeonic isn't ment for massive DDing, nor built for advancing a specific job's abilitys.
very few aeonics actually have WSs that don't suck and they don't get a 10-40% increase in the appropriate WS dmg like REM weapons.

Thanks to some aeonic trolls on AH forum, these weapons are mostly very underratted. I can name a few weapons that I think it's either game changing or useful:

- Horn: Absolutely one of the most game changing weapon in game, besides Idris. There's a pretty massive difference in terms of DPS in semi high level content between a pt with BRD and without. From my experience, whether your BRD+GEO is NQ or HQ, often makes MUCH bigger difference than avg REMA DDs.

- Sword: It's an underrated weapon thanks to massive amount of bandwagon BLUs spamming CDC with it and parse low, that's not the right way to use it. Aeonic savage build is quite possibly RDM's best DPS option, probably BLU in high buff situations too, as long as you're not taking the advantage of CDC light SC.

- GS: This weapon is very game changing for RUN. Without it, RUN can only tank, DDing on RUN isn't even worth it. With this weapon, RUN become a competitive DD with great survive-ability and ability to emergency tank. I also believe this weapon is better than epeo III for tank/DD hybrid playstyle, on spreadsheet with 50% PDT- hybrid DD set, Lionheart is only 20~30 DPS behind epeo III in same PDT-, considering Lionheart doesn't need AM3 upkeep and reso SC light, I wouldn't be surprised if DD better than epeo III in PDT- 50% gears.

- Gun: It's my preferred choice for /ra last stand spamming over 119 III armageddon in 90% of situations, due to extra SC dmg and not having to maintain AM3.

Idk about other jobs, but from what I've read, polearm, GK, GA, Katana, Scythe with CR builds are all situationally useful because of their SC abilities, or TP bonus. I wouldn't consider these weapons anywhere close to bad considering there are some things that can only be done with aeonic weapon.

NERF NOTHING. BUFF EVERYONE ELSE.
^ My standard stance on this issue.

So you want SE to buff every DD job so they can kill Schah in less than a min as well? No thanks.

Those NMs are designed to provide challenge, they are one of the hardest NM in game. What's the point to buff every DD job so everyone kill the hardest NM in game and.....quit?

Do you have any actual evidence to support your request?

If killing the hardest NM 20 times faster than other DD isn't an evidence, what other evidence do you want?

Resentment because >you< were not involved in a win does not justify trying to tear down a job you don't play because they were.

You are taking this personal. Sometimes people suggest making job adjustments, doesn't mean they're salty because they can't win or anything like that, nor have some irrational hatred about a job and want to "tear" it down.

I participated in job discussion a lot, and most of the time I'm being hated for presenting my opinion. I still do it anyways, because I believe that everyone in FFXI should have equal opportunity and respect regardless of jobs that they choose to play. End game community often determine a player's value based on jobs that they have, and most of the time it's favor of the month DDs, or jobs that allow them to kill the hardest content in the easiest manner. And the only way to solve this issue, is to provide suggestions to SE to better balance jobs.

The issue with SMN is that some job in this game, has strong "zerg" abilities that allow them to deal massive DPS in a very short time. Such as BST, SMN, WAR 1hr, or THF SATA rudra back in 2014. Once a player's gear progress to a certain point, their zerg ability allows them to bypass the NM mechanics completely.

THAT may be the reason why you don't see SMN zerging the hardest content 1 year ago, but now that people start to reach certain level of gear, SMN's zerg ability start to output certain level of DPS that kills NM before the mechanic even happen. In the case of Schah, it's dead before adds pop, which is supposed to be part of mechanic.

In terms of SMN zerg, IMO the concept itself isn't broken, since the job is much weaker than melees without 1hr, and there's massive cooldown between each 1hr use, plus pets are susceptible to status ailments, so you can't just run around on SMN and outparse every other DD 24/7. The problem is content and NM mechanics, the way they design the content, allows SMN to reset 1hr between pops, and mechanics (pop adds after a min, need to deal with adds) just favor zerg jobs. You either zerg it down in less than a min, or suck it up and deal with adds.

If those zergable content isn't one of the highest ilv content, then it's not that much of an issue. But since it's T4, which directly relate to merc gil generation and endgame content longevity, it's a bigger balance issue than SMN doing BCNM fights back in the day and get clear.

Considering SE did nerf BLU in past 4 months via Omen DD gear progression, NM evasion nerf and BRD buff, I do believe SMN nerf will happen eventually. It's just that SE probably won't nerf the job by directly handing out JA or DPS nerf, but in a more subtle way, such as implementing NM mechanics that can't be zerged.

I actually liked the way SE solve balance issues with BLU very much. Instead of nerfing the job as a whole and make BLUs unhappy, they do it by making the balance adjustments from a bigger pov, and indirectly lowered the advantage of BLU. IMO the best way to solve this SMN zerg issue without making SMNs unhappy is to implement mechanics that can't be zerged in the future.

[Sirmarki]

Alright look, I know you're famous for this, but it's time to realize something.

There are more aeonics made in a single day since the Geo"fix" than were made in an entire month the way it was.

This is beyond disgustingly broken. Look if you want people to care, SMN needed to be "fixed" already, no more delay. At this rate everyone will have all 16 aeonics by summer and reisenjima will officially be dead content if you don't move your *****.

((and you should take away every Aeonic built with Astral Conduit to prove a point that exploiting something so broken has consequences))

Do you have some kind of anger problem?

Do you really think a company is going to respond or acknowledge your rude posts? You're talking to people at the end of the day.

[Aysha]

Uh.... Songen......

Nerf SMN

You somehow took this, to mean...

So before you rant on about how smn needs a boost because of aeonic

This?

lol. OP says SMN is too powerful, you're trying to say that the OP is saying SMN needs a boost.

......wut?

[Songen]

Uh.... Songen......



You somehow took this, to mean...



This?

lol. OP says SMN is too powerful, you're trying to say that the OP is saying SMN needs a boost.

......wut?

First: YOU called your title "Nerf SMN", so i presume your a smn who feel's your far too strong, if not, why talk about a job that doesn't concern you.

Second:OP means overpowered. I'v seen some incredible summoners out there that put the time and effort (Which is what your suppose to do if you want a OP [overpowered] job). they come on par of some of the most powerful DDs out there, however even they have their limits much like everything else

Problem here is rather than resolve a issue where other jobs need to be fixed to come on par of end game, you intend on bringing down another jobs for your own reasons

Now then, as far as aeonics go. SMN isn't used for all aeonic events, infact, from the ones i'v seen, they are rarely used, Melee burns and blm death burns with bst covering the multi-mob burns. these are the current things being used (On odin). SMN is used for stuff, event aeonic stuff and could be used for more than most, however don't feel it justifys saying it needs a further nerf, they already got one a few months ago, they don't need another. at this point i'm guessing you hated all GEO's too and wished they had a bigger nerf before than what they got. I may not be in aeonic groups, but i have spent so much time in reisei and escha next to those groups to say i RARELY ever see em.

How about you come up with idea's to bring other jobs up to a higher level rather than bring another down. the boost brd got was massive, but it still needs a bit more, better to boost other jobs to come on par rather than bring down another job because you don't play it or you don't want to equip it

btw, you missed to point entirely, you think smn's needs a nerf simply because on your server they are used alot towards getting a aeonic (Which isn't actually a OP WS weapon, its more a SC weapon and tp build weapon), how does that affect you? even if they nerfed it, if you don't have a group that's accepting you, then the problem is you, not another job

[Pooty]

First: YOU called your title "Nerf SMN", so i presume your a smn who feel's your far too strong, if not, why talk about a job that doesn't concern you.

Second:OP means overpowered. I'v seen some incredible summoners out there that put the time and effort (Which is what your suppose to do if you want a OP [overpowered] job). they come on par of some of the most powerful DDs out there, however even they have their limits much like everything else

Problem here is rather than resolve a issue where other jobs need to be fixed to come on par of end game, you intend on bringing down another jobs for your own reasons

Now then, as far as aeonics go. SMN isn't used for all aeonic events, infact, from the ones i'v seen, they are rarely used, Melee burns and blm death burns with bst covering the multi-mob burns. these are the current things being used (On odin). SMN is used for stuff, event aeonic stuff and could be used for more than most, however don't feel it justifys saying it needs a further nerf, they already got one a few months ago, they don't need another. at this point i'm guessing you hated all GEO's too and wished they had a bigger nerf before than what they got. I may not be in aeonic groups, but i have spent so much time in reisei and escha next to those groups to say i RARELY ever see em.

How about you come up with idea's to bring other jobs up to a higher level rather than bring another down. the boost brd got was massive, but it still needs a bit more, better to boost other jobs to come on par rather than bring down another job because you don't play it or you don't want to equip it

btw, you missed to point entirely, you think smn's needs a nerf simply because on your server they are used alot towards getting a aeonic (Which isn't actually a OP WS weapon, its more a SC weapon and tp build weapon), how does that affect you? even if they nerfed it, if you don't have a group that's accepting you, then the problem is you, not another job

Wait a second, Songen. Sorry about this, but you've made a mistake here. Aysha did not create this thread. OP in this context means Original Poster, which is Khiril in this case. Please be more careful.

[Songen]

Wait a second, Songen. Sorry about this, but you've made a mistake here. Aysha did not create this thread. OP in this context means Original Poster, which is Khiril in this case. Please be more careful.

you are indeed right about who made the post, however doesn't change the fact on the post.

as for original poster. i suppose using OP in a forum rather than ingame was my bad. sucks not being able to use 1 type of acronym and getting it confused due to the location used.

[Nyarlko]

NERF NOTHING. BUFF EVERYONE ELSE.
^ My standard stance on this issue.
...
I've yet to see any reasonable, rational, well-thought out or backed-by-evidence "Nerf XXX" posts in the 2yrs since I've been back....

Just because you see groups gravitating towards the ACspam setup does not mean that SMN needs to be nerfed. I honestly see a lot more TPburn groups running thru than SMNburn whenever I'm in Reisenjima. Even so, bandwagoning will happen in any class-based MMORPG depending on the content being done and so long as it's not due to a bug/exploit, it's not the type of thing that should be nerfed until there is data that supports doing so due to an overwhelming advantage over other classes in the same role. Do you have any actual evidence to support your request?

Resentment because >you< were not involved in a win does not justify trying to tear down a job you don't play because they were.