Page 3 of 10 FirstFirst 1 2 3 4 5 ... LastLast
Results 21 to 30 of 93

Thread: Nerf SMN

  1. #21
    Player Afania's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Posts
    1,445
    Character
    Afania
    World
    Bahamut
    Main Class
    BRD Lv 1
    Ah, this kind of thread will always follow by a group of people playing these jobs against it. Also Songen completely misunderstood the point but I think my point applies to other anti nerf people.


    Quote Originally Posted by Songen View Post
    Aeonic isn't easy if you don't have the right group or able to make random groups, only true endgame LSes have it extremely easy to get, and even that takes time for them and they actually make the effort to level jobs, JP them and equip em to be event ready, so yeah, they kinda deserve it.
    What happened here is the "rich gets more rich, poor gets more poor" scenario. You either level SMN, merc aeonic, make 50-100m a day or you don't. Once you reach the point to make gil that easily, you can literally gear up any job with full REMA/DM aug/HQ in a few weeks and face roll any content with any setup.

    If you make the effort to lv other jobs, JP them and equip them to be event ready, you aren't going to take nearly as much advantage in terms of character progression.

    It can sound salty but I'm just pointing out facts to people that may not be aware of it.


    Quote Originally Posted by Songen View Post
    Personally i'd be happy with one aeonic at this point but its odvious that ain't happening soon because ITS NOT EASY TO GET UNLESS YOUR ALREADY IN A GREAT GROUP.
    Also, aeonic isn't ment for massive DDing, nor built for advancing a specific job's abilitys.
    very few aeonics actually have WSs that don't suck and they don't get a 10-40% increase in the appropriate WS dmg like REM weapons.
    Thanks to some aeonic trolls on AH forum, these weapons are mostly very underratted. I can name a few weapons that I think it's either game changing or useful:

    - Horn: Absolutely one of the most game changing weapon in game, besides Idris. There's a pretty massive difference in terms of DPS in semi high level content between a pt with BRD and without. From my experience, whether your BRD+GEO is NQ or HQ, often makes MUCH bigger difference than avg REMA DDs.

    - Sword: It's an underrated weapon thanks to massive amount of bandwagon BLUs spamming CDC with it and parse low, that's not the right way to use it. Aeonic savage build is quite possibly RDM's best DPS option, probably BLU in high buff situations too, as long as you're not taking the advantage of CDC light SC.

    - GS: This weapon is very game changing for RUN. Without it, RUN can only tank, DDing on RUN isn't even worth it. With this weapon, RUN become a competitive DD with great survive-ability and ability to emergency tank. I also believe this weapon is better than epeo III for tank/DD hybrid playstyle, on spreadsheet with 50% PDT- hybrid DD set, Lionheart is only 20~30 DPS behind epeo III in same PDT-, considering Lionheart doesn't need AM3 upkeep and reso SC light, I wouldn't be surprised if DD better than epeo III in PDT- 50% gears.

    - Gun: It's my preferred choice for /ra last stand spamming over 119 III armageddon in 90% of situations, due to extra SC dmg and not having to maintain AM3.

    Idk about other jobs, but from what I've read, polearm, GK, GA, Katana, Scythe with CR builds are all situationally useful because of their SC abilities, or TP bonus. I wouldn't consider these weapons anywhere close to bad considering there are some things that can only be done with aeonic weapon.



    Quote Originally Posted by Nyarlko View Post
    NERF NOTHING. BUFF EVERYONE ELSE.
    ^ My standard stance on this issue.
    So you want SE to buff every DD job so they can kill Schah in less than a min as well? No thanks.

    Those NMs are designed to provide challenge, they are one of the hardest NM in game. What's the point to buff every DD job so everyone kill the hardest NM in game and.....quit?


    Quote Originally Posted by Nyarlko View Post
    Do you have any actual evidence to support your request?
    If killing the hardest NM 20 times faster than other DD isn't an evidence, what other evidence do you want?


    Quote Originally Posted by Nyarlko View Post
    Resentment because >you< were not involved in a win does not justify trying to tear down a job you don't play because they were.
    You are taking this personal. Sometimes people suggest making job adjustments, doesn't mean they're salty because they can't win or anything like that, nor have some irrational hatred about a job and want to "tear" it down.

    I participated in job discussion a lot, and most of the time I'm being hated for presenting my opinion. I still do it anyways, because I believe that everyone in FFXI should have equal opportunity and respect regardless of jobs that they choose to play. End game community often determine a player's value based on jobs that they have, and most of the time it's favor of the month DDs, or jobs that allow them to kill the hardest content in the easiest manner. And the only way to solve this issue, is to provide suggestions to SE to better balance jobs.

    The issue with SMN is that some job in this game, has strong "zerg" abilities that allow them to deal massive DPS in a very short time. Such as BST, SMN, WAR 1hr, or THF SATA rudra back in 2014. Once a player's gear progress to a certain point, their zerg ability allows them to bypass the NM mechanics completely.

    THAT may be the reason why you don't see SMN zerging the hardest content 1 year ago, but now that people start to reach certain level of gear, SMN's zerg ability start to output certain level of DPS that kills NM before the mechanic even happen. In the case of Schah, it's dead before adds pop, which is supposed to be part of mechanic.

    In terms of SMN zerg, IMO the concept itself isn't broken, since the job is much weaker than melees without 1hr, and there's massive cooldown between each 1hr use, plus pets are susceptible to status ailments, so you can't just run around on SMN and outparse every other DD 24/7. The problem is content and NM mechanics, the way they design the content, allows SMN to reset 1hr between pops, and mechanics (pop adds after a min, need to deal with adds) just favor zerg jobs. You either zerg it down in less than a min, or suck it up and deal with adds.

    If those zergable content isn't one of the highest ilv content, then it's not that much of an issue. But since it's T4, which directly relate to merc gil generation and endgame content longevity, it's a bigger balance issue than SMN doing BCNM fights back in the day and get clear.

    Considering SE did nerf BLU in past 4 months via Omen DD gear progression, NM evasion nerf and BRD buff, I do believe SMN nerf will happen eventually. It's just that SE probably won't nerf the job by directly handing out JA or DPS nerf, but in a more subtle way, such as implementing NM mechanics that can't be zerged.

    I actually liked the way SE solve balance issues with BLU very much. Instead of nerfing the job as a whole and make BLUs unhappy, they do it by making the balance adjustments from a bigger pov, and indirectly lowered the advantage of BLU. IMO the best way to solve this SMN zerg issue without making SMNs unhappy is to implement mechanics that can't be zerged in the future.
    (1)
    Last edited by Afania; 04-09-2017 at 05:40 AM.

  2. #22
    Player Afania's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Posts
    1,445
    Character
    Afania
    World
    Bahamut
    Main Class
    BRD Lv 1
    Quote Originally Posted by Jakuk View Post
    I ultimately agree, but it won't happen.
    It shouldn't happen* Other jobs are fine, in terms of how they perform in endgame content. With current DD performance, increasing their output just kills endgame content longevity.

    Other DD jobs are not "inferior" to SMN at all, they just can't bulldoze the hardest NM like SMN does and bypass mechanics. It's the content design that needs to be fixed, IMO.
    (0)

  3. 04-09-2017 03:10 PM

  4. #23
    Player Eaglestrike's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Posts
    77
    Character
    Ladyofhonor
    World
    Asura
    Main Class
    THF Lv 99
    Quote Originally Posted by Zeargi View Post
    There are already jobs that can do that kind of damage, and you've also have no grasp of SMN at all. 3-4s, hardly. SMN BP timer is 21 maybe 20 seconds. SAM, BLU, DRG, and DRK can all do far greater spike DMG than SMN can. Hell, even RNG and COR can do that kind of DMG while staying out of range of things. My LS was doing T2 Escha NMs, and every single fight the BLU and the DRK out did my DMG dealing 270,000+ DMG and that was without the requirement of using a 1hr ability like SMN has to.


    It had everything to do with those AoE moves. How many of those Bandwagon BST used anything except that Grasshopper? And SMN hasn't changed with keeping it's distance from stuff. It's been like that since the job was introduced. The Trial Size Avatar fights, that was the whole mechanic. Use Carbuncle, run away, resummon, wait for engagement, and run some more, repeat. BLM and SMN are tied for having the worst DEF in the game. So I find it hard to believe, you would ask a BLM to hump a mob and try to cast while still functioning properly.


    And that isn't SMNs fault. How many WHMs used to charge for raises in Valkurm Dunes or to use a Teleport Spell? How many LS charged for Dynamis/Sea/Sky Clears? How many PLDs have charged to be a tank for a fight? How many WARs charged for Cleaving in Abyssea? That is a community that is pure lazy and refused to help others.



    SMN Burns are nothing new. Promy Fight back when it was a capped thing, People took 2-3 SMNs to Astral Flow the clears - claiming it had to be done that way. Waking the Beast (Carbuncle Prime) was done almost completely with an alliance of SMNs. But here you're saying that how dare these people take someone that has spent the time to MASTER a job to content. That is completely ludicrous that you're saying that at all. And what about those SMNs, have you taken the time to check what gear they have? A Nirvana, A Full Apogee set, a Helios Set, or many other vast array of pieces that are needed? People that don't understand and play a job, are equally bias. They're anger because X job isn't being taken, or Y job does things better. We as a community decide how the game is played and we can be the think tank to change things so that every job has an equal chance, but these witch hunts need to stop already.
    You are the very reason a lot of the top tier players avoid the official forums, you clearly don't understand the balance issue at hand.

    First: The strategy to kill nearly every single aeonic NM of note in the game is this: Tank, GEO, COR, SMN, SMN. Everything dies in less than a minute. I'm talking Kirin/Kouryu, Warder of Courage, Schah, Vinipata, etc. THEY DIE IN LESS THAN A MINUTE. The hardest bosses in the entire game die in a minute to this 5-man strategy. I have a buddy who has 5~ aeonics or so, he made a brand new char 4 months ago. Not an alt, a brand new, fresh account that's 4 months old has 5 aeonics.

    Second: That strategy involves using Astral Conduit, which reduces BP recast to 0. So with these buffs a SMN can do 50k BP's...with no recast. This is a full minute of 50k damage spam, which is what Saevel mentioned. There's NOTHING in the game that can compete with that, which is why there's a thread asking to nerf SMN, because it's far above and beyond what any other job in this game is capable of.

    Third: You claim MASTER in a job is some amazing accomplishment worthy of being able to mindlessly clear content. Before SMN burns were THE thing to do aeonic farming normally utilized MASTER of a variety of jobs, with some people shifting between two (or more) different MASTER jobs as fights required. But the aeonic fights would normally take 5-30min, where you would actually have to deal with the full mechanics of a fight. Whereas now you can get a couple SMN's to Conduit BP spam and Kirin's adds don't even reach the popping tank before Kirin is dead.

    Fourth: Go watch a video yourself, youtube for "FFXI Kouryu SMN Burn". And just to note, most of the SMN's there don't have stars, so they're not even master. Fight took less than 90s and Kirin only popped one god before it died. If you don't understand how that is BROKEN and OVERPOWERED, well, there's not much discussion left to have.
    (2)

  5. #24
    Player Nyarlko's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2015
    Posts
    1,525
    Character
    Nyarlko
    World
    Asura
    Main Class
    BST Lv 99
    Quote Originally Posted by Afania
    You are taking this personal. Sometimes people suggest making job adjustments, doesn't mean they're salty because they can't win or anything like that, nor have some irrational hatred about a job and want to "tear" it down.
    I'm not taking it personal. ^^;; My statement was in response to the OP who most definitely was posting in personal anger and making irrational requests, however, it was also intended to be applied more broadly, sorry if I used odd syntax that made that hard to get across. :x You can replace the ">you<" in my statement with "any individual who is reading this" to get the point I was trying to make. ^^ The OP also lacked any form of evidence period, so yeah... I'll stand by my prior statements.
    YOU (Afania) provided more evidence in support of a nerf than the OP, since you have one statement of evidence, while they had zero. ^^ I enjoy discussing job adjustments, but it's quite difficult to discuss anything when the only argument is "NERF IT TO THE GROUND BECAUSE I SAID SO!!!".

    For the record, I do not play SMN, (I do have it leveled, but no room for gear,) and I'm against nerfing on principle. Nerfing players should always be a measure of last resort. Every system/opponent aspect should be examined and adjusted before nerfing players. I'm happy that the devs kinda-sorta agree with me on this, since the last few major combat adjustments have been nerfs to monsters, not players.

    In order for me to agree w/ something, I need to know what I am agreeing to, and why I should be agreeing in the first place. Screaming for unspecified nerfs and revoking items gained by using a certain job/tactic is not something I am probably ever going to be able to agree to.
    (0)
    Last edited by Nyarlko; 04-15-2017 at 04:51 PM.
    “That is not dead which can eternal lie, And with strange aeons even death may die.”

  6. #25
    Player Eaglestrike's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Posts
    77
    Character
    Ladyofhonor
    World
    Asura
    Main Class
    THF Lv 99
    Quote Originally Posted by Nyarlko View Post
    I'm against nerfing on principle. Nerfing players should always be a measure of last resort. Every system/opponent aspect should be examined and adjusted before nerfing players. I'm happy that the devs kinda-sorta agree with me on this, since the last few major combat adjustments have been nerfs to monsters, not players.
    This is a fair way to look at things during the "BLU IS OP" era. And the way we got around that era was actually by buffing BRD and nerfing mobs. BLU still has a number of advantages, but it's not godly and way above everyone else like it was.

    But that doesn't work for SMN. SMN is killing the hardest mobs in the game in seconds. If you buffed everyone to be able to do that everyone would be done the game next week.
    (2)

  7. #26
    Player Zeargi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Currently: Windurst
    Posts
    743
    Quote Originally Posted by Eaglestrike View Post
    You are the very reason a lot of the top tier players avoid the official forums, you clearly don't understand the balance issue at hand.
    No, a lot of them don't come here because the majority of players just gripe and moan about everything under the sun, rather than try to enjoy the game. But if you think I care about ranks, then you're sadly mistaken. I know I'm not the best, but I still have fun all the same.

    Quote Originally Posted by Eaglestrike View Post
    First: The strategy to kill nearly every single aeonic NM of note in the game is this: Tank, GEO, COR, SMN, SMN. Everything dies in less than a minute. I'm talking Kirin/Kouryu, Warder of Courage, Schah, Vinipata, etc. THEY DIE IN LESS THAN A MINUTE. The hardest bosses in the entire game die in a minute to this 5-man strategy. I have a buddy who has 5~ aeonics or so, he made a brand new char 4 months ago. Not an alt, a brand new, fresh account that's 4 months old has 5 aeonics.
    So... For this strategy to work it requires the only two support jobs that can directly impact a SMN's pet... So then it's not SMN alone that can do that. You all continue to keep pushing and pushing that SMN is broken. But if those things aren't in place then in theory it can't be done like that. So rather than looking at SMN as the sole culprit, you should perhaps evaluate the problem as a whole.

    And watching that video, at least one SMN had the Nirvana equipped (That I could see), and only once did the AC Volt Strikes actually break 50k (Which I'm going to bet it was the guy that actually had the Nirvana). Most of them sat at the 25-36k range. I understand peoples frustration, but people need to evaluate the situations in it's fullest, rather than flying off the handle blindly. I personally have no goals for these Aeonics, none of them wow me as a SMN. But I know that if you feel that you have to have them all, then it's nothing more than just for some lame bragging rights or the server ranking on the FFXIAH. So, rather than punishing the SMN that have nothing to do with this Bandwagoning, why not adjust the mobs themselves to shy away from doing things like that. They have the means to do it. The PW would despawn when it changes phases, and the ADL splits based on the HP dealt. Why not make it despawn if a certain threshold is reached to soon, and have it spawn the gods based on the HP remain. They're always more than one answer when it comes to things like this. Much like there's more than one way to beat a boss, WE as a community can shape things just as equally.
    (0)
    Last edited by Zeargi; 04-16-2017 at 04:50 AM.
    "What is a man? A miserable little pile of secrets. But enough talk... Have at you!" Lord Dracula - [Castlevania:SotN]

  8. #27
    Player Songen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2016
    Location
    Windurst
    Posts
    327
    Character
    Horu
    World
    Odin
    Main Class
    MNK Lv 99
    Quote Originally Posted by Eaglestrike View Post
    You are the very reason a lot of the top tier players avoid the official forums, you clearly don't understand the balance issue at hand.

    First: The strategy to kill nearly every single aeonic NM of note in the game is this: Tank, GEO, COR, SMN, SMN. Everything dies in less than a minute. I'm talking Kirin/Kouryu, Warder of Courage, Schah, Vinipata, etc. THEY DIE IN LESS THAN A MINUTE. The hardest bosses in the entire game die in a minute to this 5-man strategy. I have a buddy who has 5~ aeonics or so, he made a brand new char 4 months ago. Not an alt, a brand new, fresh account that's 4 months old has 5 aeonics.

    Second: That strategy involves using Astral Conduit, which reduces BP recast to 0. So with these buffs a SMN can do 50k BP's...with no recast. This is a full minute of 50k damage spam, which is what Saevel mentioned. There's NOTHING in the game that can compete with that, which is why there's a thread asking to nerf SMN, because it's far above and beyond what any other job in this game is capable of.

    Third: You claim MASTER in a job is some amazing accomplishment worthy of being able to mindlessly clear content. Before SMN burns were THE thing to do aeonic farming normally utilized MASTER of a variety of jobs, with some people shifting between two (or more) different MASTER jobs as fights required. But the aeonic fights would normally take 5-30min, where you would actually have to deal with the full mechanics of a fight. Whereas now you can get a couple SMN's to Conduit BP spam and Kirin's adds don't even reach the popping tank before Kirin is dead.

    Fourth: Go watch a video yourself, youtube for "FFXI Kouryu SMN Burn". And just to note, most of the SMN's there don't have stars, so they're not even master. Fight took less than 90s and Kirin only popped one god before it died. If you don't understand how that is BROKEN and OVERPOWERED, well, there's not much discussion left to have.
    /cough, ok then, you seem to be thinking that its best to fight these mobs over time, that killing it fast is wrong, and that its better to spend 20-50min on each hard mob? is this about it? thing is, mobs like escha and reisei have time limits. as such they fall into the caterogy of BCNM (and yes you spawn it with a KI made from trading pop items, and yes, they are limited to a radius around the spawn point which means it is a battlefield and if you leave you forfit the fight).

    What you also fail to realise is that these fights have a 30minute time limit, which means you can't go around pointlessly trying to hit 10-20 weak points or take your time trying to clear off adds and then do a full wipe so your able to get up again and try again. you can't take your time on these fights, right from the very start of BCNMs it was common practice to come up with stratergys to clear the fight the fights within as little a time frame as possible. clearing a BCNM at 75 cap days in 1-5 min was common place, i know, i saw myself people selling drops from fights that make normal LSs weep out of difficulty.

    A smn burn is pimped and can clear fights instantly, but you fail to realise that not all servers use that only. most comments i see concerning smn come from people from Asura server(we don't have that problem on odin so get off asura if you don't like it), and while other servers do use it, they work more on other stratergies too. Odin for example is notorious for blm and melee burns (Yes, we kick ass with something other than smn's). its more risky but it gets the job done. and guess what? (YOU NEED TO USE YOUR 2HR TOO FOR THOSE, omg omg omg, other stratergys other than smn uses 2hrs just like smn does? thats wrong, we need to nerf every job out there so they can't use 2hrs anymore)

    your delusional, you and everyone who fails to see exactly what your dealing with. Long gone are the days of spending 1-3 years doing dynamis for a relic weapon, long gone are the days of spending 1-10hrs fighting HNMs, long gone are the days of owning a REM ment you were a elite. there are people who put the time in and solo those now, it simply takes time.

    Aeonic's are strong, but only a few offer powers that stand at or above REM weapons. Aeonic is more of a off hand weapon for dual wield jobs, and a few of the 2handed ones are actually useful depending on the situation.

    To summarise, smn is pimped, but pimped is needed for current events, however smn isn't only choice, there are choices, if your not getting invited, get over it or change servers.

    Edit: you can turn off your master's stars. did you know that? not everyone likes it over there heads.

    Also, if your buddy has 5 aeonics and that pisses you off so much, why do you call him your buddy?
    (1)
    Last edited by Songen; 04-15-2017 at 08:10 PM.

  9. #28
    Player Eaglestrike's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Posts
    77
    Character
    Ladyofhonor
    World
    Asura
    Main Class
    THF Lv 99
    At no point did I say I was "pissed off" that my buddy has a bunch of aeonics. I said it's a broken system. He's probably quitting soon because he can breeze through content so easily. You're not going to keep a functioning game around if all you need to do is hop on SMN, get a decent set and you can win any fight in the game. And most MMO players will always gravitate to the path of least resistance.

    None of what you said explains why it should be possible to beat every boss in the game in a minute and a half...or less. And sure, you could beat some BCNM's at 75 cap days in a couple minutes...but I'm talking about the hardest bosses in the entire game. At no point could you kill Tiamat in 1-2min. When you could K club DRK zerg Kirin in a minute you know what they did? They nerfed it.

    Also, I know some of those people in that video, they're not exactly considered top notch players, I am pretty certain two of the SMN's just tossed together gear only over the past few weeks because of the new SMN zerg strategy. So they very likely don't have stars on SMN, but they can clear Kirin easier than most other players of the game. Less effort for more reward, sounds totes balanced.
    (0)

  10. #29
    Player Songen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2016
    Location
    Windurst
    Posts
    327
    Character
    Horu
    World
    Odin
    Main Class
    MNK Lv 99
    Edit:Screw it, i wrote a whole story here but i feel its simply adding to the ranting.
    So to sum up,
    I don't support the OP in terms of nerf the job entirely beyond the one ability that makes it overpowered.
    And i most certainly don't support the remove all aeonic weapons attained by those who got em with smn.
    (0)
    Last edited by Songen; 04-16-2017 at 12:45 AM.

  11. #30
    Player Khiril's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2017
    Posts
    87
    Character
    Klihri
    World
    Asura
    Main Class
    THF Lv 99
    Quote Originally Posted by Songen View Post
    Edit:Screw it, i wrote a whole story here but i feel its simply adding to the ranting.
    So to sum up,
    I don't support the OP in terms of nerf the job entirely beyond the one ability that makes it overpowered.
    And i most certainly don't support the remove all aeonic weapons attained by those who got em with smn.
    So SMN is OP, but nerfing them isn't the answer?

    Squares ONLY answer for 15 has been nerf.

    Taking away their aeonics would never happen, obviously, but it would be damn hilarious. And deserved. Let's be honest, no one that plays SMN is good enough to use an Aeonic. That's why they have to play SMN, so nothing would be lost.
    (0)
    Last edited by Khiril; 04-16-2017 at 02:22 AM.

Page 3 of 10 FirstFirst 1 2 3 4 5 ... LastLast