Recently returned but having trouble getting into post 99 content, please advise ...

[Jin_Uzuki]

In 2006, people still spent a significant amount of game time leveling.

You are right, and pretty much everywhere you went leveling there was competition, to the point people actually needed to discuss camping spots. Not only that, but every time you went NM hunting you had competition. Also Sky, even 2 parties doing sky could run into huge problems. Coffers/chests hunting? Huuuge competition. Crafting was also far much more competitive given that even if you level slowly you still had to deal with like... 10k+ players. Oh yeah, people had run schedule for Dyna.

In fact, the game in 2006 was far much competitive than now due to 1) Much more people around running stuff 2) Far less spots to do stuff 3) Lockdown and general difficulty to set up things meant people weren't spread in 360 directions like they are these days

Now please I want to hear about how you handled zoning into Aht Urhgan and finding 1000 ppl running around doing stuff. What about zoning into Crawler Nest and Garlaige cittadel and finding 2 parties exping any time? Or going zoning into Giddeus and finding 7+ people camping Hoo Mjuu the Torrent?

In fact, the game got much more less competitive with time. Compare Escha to Sky, escha actually allows several people to run stuff in parallel. Sure, there are more people running endgame but 1) Not everyone is running escha at the same time 2) 1000 people are actually very little in MMOPRG. You have people from Asura LITERALLY telling you that "competition" is not an issue and people still think Asura is populated like 2006 Crawler Nest. It's honestly kind of hilarious, I wonder what imagine people have of more "populated" servers in the mind. (especially given that populated servers don't even have 1/10 of their server population in 2005 or so)

Back then, it was to your advantage to have as many players as possible seeking invites, to quickly build your exp/merit party.

As opposed to now? Last time I checked you want 6 people to CP and even for T2+ (Even some T1) most people want full party. Avatars too.

Whether that's easier on a larger or smaller server is debatable.

No, it's not, what the hell? How is easier to find people to run stuff if there are LESS people online?

"Woah, there is no one online, all my friend are AFK I can't rely on shouts, but somehow it's easier to get stuff done!"

[Afania]

In 2006, people still spent a significant amount of game time leveling. Back then, it was to your advantage to have as many players as possible seeking invites, to quickly build your exp/merit party. The range of player experience also meant that a great majority weren't bothering with endgame material. Now leveling up to 99 takes a few hours at most, and the servers are top-heavy with fully leveled players who have nothing to do *but* endgame. Given that most of the "endgame" events of 2006 can now be solo'ed, there simply isn't enough of that material for a large player population. And the more recent endgame events of course have been programmed to discourage you (or flat out prevent you) from bringing more than 6 players. Regardless of just how much you might feel the effect of being on a large vs small server in terms of competition for entering instanced events or for farming limited mobs/triggers, your basic problem lies in actually finding 5 other players to do those events with you. Whether that's easier on a larger or smaller server is debatable.

In general, player progress is still much faster on bigger server unless you play 6+ characters and write scripts for them proficiently. But saying bigger server has same or less competition in escha as smaller server is just false info. I don't mind people promoting Asura because it's more active. But providing false info shouldn't be encouraged.


My point is, I'm encouraging for objective, accurate info. Not exaggerated info that's clearly false or misleading. Whether someone prefers bigger or smaller server is 100% personal preference, and none of anyone's business.

It often takes less time to find an alternate pop spot than it does to wait on multiboxed characters to get located and setup.

I don't know how you multi box tbh. Last time I checked, running to #1 ??? in Ruann find it full, go back to #1 again and warp, click #2 and find full, click next warp takes more than 1 min. Running to #2 ??? in Reisen, find it full, run back to #2 or warp ring then go to #4 ??? takes longer than 3 min for sure. If you play with real people instead of mules I can promise you it'll take longer than 10 min most of the time. No efficient multi boxer takes more than a min to zone their characters. All the statement about competitions are being made and exaggerated to an extreme point, that idk what to say anymore.

And yes, multi boxed characters runs and setup faster than real players who often afk, got lost, forgot tribs, aggro mobs, what a surprise.

[Afania]

No, it's not, what the hell? How is easier to find people to run stuff if there are LESS people online?

"Woah, there is no one online, all my friend are AFK I can't rely on shouts, but somehow it's easier to get stuff done!"

I just spent pages to explain. Connections that only exists on certain servers, mules. Also this is kinda depend on content things. You simply don't shout for melee WoC nor master trials. You're speaking from a complete PUG point of view.

Also just to provide some correct information, you don't need 6 people for T2+. 3 is enough for everything up to T3, Yakshi is doable with 3, I wouldn't be surprised if it's doable with 2. Anything easier than yakshi is doable with 3 or less, which is almost all of the T1~T3 escha NM that I can think of.

In fact, the game got much more less competitive with time. Compare Escha to Sky, escha actually allows several people to run stuff in parallel.

Not if you use certain strategy. #2 in reisen and #1 in ruann is often preferred for certain NM. You can probably* still win without those pop spot, but those slot still gains advantage that other ??? doesn't have.

Also some ??? in reisen and ruann is massive aggro fest, which increases the time taken considerably because one person is guarantee to aggro things.

Once again, saying escha content can support multiple party on the same time without suffering from certain disadvantage is just false info. Objectively speaking, it can't.

[Jin_Uzuki]

I just spent pages to explain. Connections that only exists on certain servers, mules. Also this is kinda depend on content things. You simply don't shout for melee WoC nor master trials. You're speaking from a complete PUG point of view.

Connections exist in every server. Mules too. LS of people banding together exist on every servers as well people making friendships with people and getting non-LS connections with them. They have existed for years and will exist until the end of this game forever.

The only difference is that you lose the ability to do stuff if you "connections" are offline and afk and you are completely at loss if you are a returning/new player.

Also just to provide some correct information, you don't need 6 people for T2+. 3 is enough for everything up to T3, Yakshi is doable with 3, I wouldn't be surprised if it's doable with 2. Anything easier than yakshi is doable with 3 or less, which is almost all of the T1~T3 escha NM that I can think of.

No I did not. You missed "most people". Most people aren't 2100/2100 JP <insert job> that can solo/duo T3. I did T3. Don't try to be coy with me.

Not if you use certain strategy. #2 in reisen and #1 in ruann is often preferred for certain NM. You can probably* still win without those pop spot, but those slot still gains advantage that other ??? doesn't have.

Also some ??? in reisen and ruann is massive aggro fest, which increases the time taken considerably because one person is guarantee to aggro things.


Once again, saying escha content can support multiple party on the same time without suffering from certain disadvantage is just false info. Objectively speaking, it can't.

Funny you mention #1 in Ruann, that the actual spot where you can get agroed, isn't it. #2 on reisenjima too I think? Most people use #9.

What are these "advantages" anyway?

Still want to know how you handled FFXI in 2006 were there was competition everywhere. I mean, you can't handle picking a different ??? in escha what did you do when you had to discuss exping spots that were less favorable? I'm genuinely curious now.

[Afania]

Connections exist in every server. Mules too. LS of people banding together exist on every servers as well people making friendships with people and getting non-LS connections with them. They have existed for years and will exist until the end of this game forever.

The only difference is that you lose the ability to do stuff if you "connections" are offline and afk and you are completely at loss if you are a returning/new player.

The problem is, again, besides one person nobody else in this entire chains of discussion is trying to sell their server. Besides that person nobody is saying new/returning player should NOT go to Asura.

You guys are trying to sell Asura to new/returning players, I got it. But why are you also trying to convince everyone else with LS/friends/connections on their home to leave their LS/friends for Asura and cut off their connections? That just makes no sense to me. It seems to me that you're just trying to justify your choice, when nobody bashes your choice to begin with.

Also your idea of connection is obviously different from mine. My idea of connection involves people that meets certain qualifications(certain job/gear/owns certain number of mules/high level of trusts and intimacy etc), it's not just anyone. Asura and Odin is currently top 2 server in terms of population, if I'm going to try and replicate that 2 min melee woc/100% win rate again, I wouldn't be able to pull it off on Asura nor Odin just because I don't have access to these people, even though both servers are the biggest NA servers. People that meets the job/gear/prebuff mule qualification wouldn't help a stranger like me. I can go out and make 300 friends and join multiple LSs on those servers, that doesn't mean I can get the access to people to pull it off. It simply can only be done with very, very specific people/groups, because of certain social restrictions.

Long story short, when it comes to the definition of connections, it is not the number that matters, but individual.

Telling people to leave their LS/friends for Asura(that's what some people have been doing in this discussion) is just cutting off connections, which is against my original point.

Funny you mention #1 in Ruann, that the actual spot where you can get agroed, isn't it. #2 on reisenjima too I think? Most people use #9.

What are these "advantages" anyway?

Elevation and kiting space.

Still want to know how you handled FFXI in 2006 were there was competition everywhere. I mean, you can't handle picking a different ??? in escha what did you do when you had to discuss exping spots that were less favorable? I'm genuinely curious now.

There's absolutely no point to compare exping in 2006 with endgame in 2017. The time is different, situations are different, trust/mule tool access are different, contents are different.

And even if someone prefer a 400 people low pop server at that time, they wouldn't have the choice in 2006. Now you're basically just arguing for the sake of winning the argument by playing the 2006 card.

Again, you want to play with real people, I got it. But why must you guys repeatly argue with those who doesn't?

[detlef]

#2 Reisenjima is a really uniquely useful pop location as stated.

Also, nobody is saying Valefor is better than Asura or anything like that. Rather, there are legitimate reasons to prefer a server like Valefor for some people. Emphasis on some people. Not all people, some. Again, not all people. Some.

[Diavolo]

Afania, you're so far out there right now that it's amazing. You seem to be reading things that just aren't there.

Asura's the logical choice for new/returning players, there's not much of an argument to be made against it. There's more to do because there are more people to do it all with. No one's telling you to leave your LS/friends/intimate "connections" or whatever you want to call them. As I said, you (and whoever you play with) could do everything you're doing on Ragnarok on Asura, too, if you wanted, of course. A common misconception that people have in these types of threads is that Asura is overcrowded and unwelcoming (i.e. "I wait 10 mins for Ambu on Sylph so you must wait 30+ mins on Asura") which couldn't be further from the truth.

If it didn't present such a technical hurdle for the skeleton crew then merging all the servers together would make a whole lot of sense right now. End the game in the same spirit as it began, where "thousands of players will unite" and "experience a living, breathing, persistent world that exists 24/7 whether you're in it or not," as the FFXI promotional video so succinctly put it. If I had a time machine and went back to 2004 to warn myself about how this game would change in its final years the younger me would probably slap me upside the head and call me a terrible liar. Avoiding social exposure used to be a trait of the stereotypical nerd/gamer and they'd use online games as a way of coping. Now we can't even do that anymore because nothing's allowed to get in the way of our multiboxing euphoria. Everything needs to be streamlined now, including the social experience. I mean, hell, we're using the 30 seconds it might take to warp from one Eschan portal to another as a reason to avoid joining a much larger population, so imagine the hassle of interacting with a stranger... In case anyone needs a reminder, we were all that stranger once.

[Jin_Uzuki]

You guys are trying to sell Asura to new/returning players, I got it. But why are you also trying to convince everyone else with LS/friends/connections on their home to leave their LS/friends for Asura and cut off their connections?

No, not really. I can't tell you how play MMORPG, and certainly not how to spend your money.

I'm just telling you that you ideas of what is possible on bigger servers are wrong and you can literally do everything you do on a 300 ppl server on a 1000 ppl server because 1000 people is very low for a MMORPG. That's all.

There's absolutely no point to compare exping in 2006 with endgame in 2017. The time is different, situations are different, trust/mule tool access are different, contents are different.

You are right. 2006 was much worse for competition.

And yet people managed. What a mystery!

[Afania]

Afania, you're so far out there right now that it's amazing. You seem to be reading things that just aren't there.

Asura's the logical choice for new/returning players, there's not much of an argument to be made against it. There's more to do because there are more people to do it all with. No one's telling you to leave your LS/friends/intimate "connections" or whatever you want to call them. As I said, you (and whoever you play with) could do everything you're doing on Ragnarok on Asura, too, if you wanted, of course. A common misconception that people have in these types of threads is that Asura is overcrowded and unwelcoming (i.e. "I wait 10 mins for Ambu on Sylph so you must wait 30+ mins on Asura") which couldn't be further from the truth.

If it didn't present such a technical hurdle for the skeleton crew then merging all the servers together would make a whole lot of sense right now. End the game in the same spirit as it began, where "thousands of players will unite" and "experience a living, breathing, persistent world that exists 24/7 whether you're in it or not," as the FFXI promotional video so succinctly put it. If I had a time machine and went back to 2004 to warn myself about how this game would change in its final years the younger me would probably slap me upside the head and call me a terrible liar. Avoiding social exposure used to be a trait of the stereotypical nerd/gamer and they'd use online games as a way of coping. Now we can't even do that anymore because nothing's allowed to get in the way of our multiboxing euphoria. Everything needs to be streamlined now, including the social experience. I mean, hell, we're using the 30 seconds it might take to warp from one Eschan portal to another as a reason to avoid joining a much larger population, so imagine the hassle of interacting with a stranger... In case anyone needs a reminder, we were all that stranger once.

There's only one person(and that person wasn't me) that suggested other server for new and returning player, and even then Asura is only the "logical choice" when you want faster progression.

Some people don't play the game and try for faster progression. I do, you probably do too that's why you're suggesting Asura. But for many, many, many people that I know of, play the game for social purposes. If social is their purpose, then Asura is no longer your so called logical choice.

It is still possible to get things done in other servers too, just slower. But there could be many reason that people prefer other servers.

What I'm trying to say here is that you guys keep making opinion like this:

Why? There is literally no advantage to being on a quieter server unless your idea of a great environment is one that goes against the core concept of an MMORPG.

Some people play on NotAsura because they hate trolls, some people play on NotAsura because they have old friend refuse(or doesn't need to) move, some people play on NotAsura because have groups. And all these are valid reasons. But you are basically hinting all these people are making illogical choices and everyone should move for a better life, if they don't then they misunderstood Asura, which is just come out as cocky, playing as a victim, and not respecting others choice.

Asura's the logical choice for new/returning players, there's not much of an argument to be made against it. There's more to do because there are more people to do it all with. No one's telling you to leave your LS/friends/intimate "connections" or whatever you want to call them. As I said, you (and whoever you play with) could do everything you're doing on Ragnarok on Asura, too, if you wanted, of course. A common misconception that people have in these types of threads is that Asura is overcrowded and unwelcoming (i.e. "I wait 10 mins for Ambu on Sylph so you must wait 30+ mins on Asura") which couldn't be further from the truth.

No one said a thing about Ambuscade though, I only said something about Escha. There isn't one single thread that I claim Ambuscade wait time is 30+ min, I only said Escha competition is definitely less on smaller server.

Unwelcoming or not completely depend on individual, who you meet, and who you play with. You can't claim "X server is welcoming" without considering other people play with different groups.

As I said, you (and whoever you play with) could do everything you're doing on Ragnarok on Asura, too

I can't, reasonably. Those server environments are way too different socially, and I simply can't control those factors even if I want to.

I'm not a multi boxer, but I heavily rely on multi box people with key jobs whenever I theorycraft a new setup for harder stuff and wanted to try it. Some of the things that I've done on Ragnarok, I can't ever replicate on different server even if they have 5000 people.

But that's another story, and irrelevant to this discussion nor the point I'm trying to make.

My point in this entire discussion is that you only used server numbers and character progression speed as a standard state it as an universal fact. But you didn't consider sometimes people play MMO for more than just that.

If anything it's you with the misconception that nobody understands Asura except you, and everyone else who choose NotAsura just don't know well enough.

[Afania]

Avoiding social exposure used to be a trait of the stereotypical nerd/gamer and they'd use online games as a way of coping. Now we can't even do that anymore because nothing's allowed to get in the way of our multiboxing euphoria. Everything needs to be streamlined now, including the social experience. I mean, hell, we're using the 30 seconds it might take to warp from one Eschan portal to another as a reason to avoid joining a much larger population, so imagine the hassle of interacting with a stranger... In case anyone needs a reminder, we were all that stranger once.

I need more than 30 sec to warp from one point to another at #2, but at this point I'll just stop arguing about it and provide some data from my collection since you kept mentioning social aspect.

From 2015 I've sent out around 20 applications to endgame LSs(that can or have been trying for high lv endgame, not just some people got together for easy T2 T3s) on Asura/Odin/Bismarck/Fenrir/Bahamut/Ragnarok

Out of all the Asura applications, 9 were rejected, 1 were accepted. 10% success rate. The reason of rejection is they're full and only accept X/Y/Z job with X/Y/Z gear, which I don't have, nor want to play.
All my Bismarck app were rejected for the same reason.
All of my Fenrir app were rejected for the same reason.
1 app on Bahamut were accepted.
1 of my app on Odin were accepted, but it's JP. Rest were meh.

Out of all 4 Ragnarok applications, all 4 were accepted. Unlike most of the NotRagnarok apps, none of the LS that I sent out app on Ragnarok ever ask me if I have X/Y/Z job or X/Y/Z gears, I just automatically got a pearl when I asked. Still 100% success rate.

I'm sure one of the Asuran people would pop and tell me "but I have 80%+ success rate on my Asura endgame LS apps" etc. But that becomes "it depends on individual and your connection" sort of things, and one person's experience doesn't apply to everyone.

You see, when people are interacting with each other, it's reallly more than just numbers of people on servers. Just because someone play on a bigger server, doesn't mean they can do better endgame wise. Farming domain evasion, farming gil, do ambuscade, shout for PUG, all these activities 100% favors bigger server like Asura. But for people that seek things that requires endgame connections, it's another story and it depends on who you know.

All of the app that I sent out on Ragnarok, the decision makers are people that I know for many, many, many years and these people in leadership positions knew me well enough that what I can bring to table for their LS is more than just jobs/gears, but the ability to help other members improve, theorycraft a better setup, improve pt efficiency and workflow, and knowledge in FFXI mechanics. You know, something more valuable to an endgame LS than jobs/gears.

All of the app that I've sent out on NotRagnarok servers, most of the decision makers don't know me as a person, so they had to make decisions based on what jobs/gears I have, which was nothing useful to them or highly replaceable, thus much, much, much higher rate of rejections.

And THAT is what i meant by connections. It's people that you know, and people that knows you, and it's more complicated than just "But there's connections on Asura too". Your connections, not mine.

Anyways, I don't want to come out as some sort of Asura rant nor bashing the server as a whole, that isn't my intention. I think the server is great for returning players that's connectionless regardless of servers, and seeks faster character progressions. And I'm very sure that some people out there could accomplish a much higher application success rate on Asura. In fact I know more than a couple of person that does much better endgame wise after they move. It's just that one person's experience can't apply to everyone equally, and there's just no way I'd rate Asura better or worse servers than NotAsura. Apples and Oranges, saying one server is better or worse than another is as none sense as saying one company is better than another, or one country/city is better than another. All opinions.

Tl;dr, All servers are great with their own benefits, okay?