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  1. #11
    Player Skyrant_Kangaroomouse's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    76
    Character
    Skyrant
    World
    Asura
    Main Class
    NIN Lv 99
    Charm and Tame on the AF is just an insult at this point. What were they thinking?

    AF should have job defining and enhancing attributes. SAM AF for example gets REGAIN, Zanshin, Hasso, Meditate Duration to name just a few.

    If they want us to fight alongside the Pet we need Accuracy and Attack for both Pet and Master and lots of it. The only set that works as a TP set for both Pet and Master is the Tahli'ah Set but it has no Attack at all. It's pure Accuracy.

    We have a TP Set (Tali'Ah)

    We need a Weaponskill Set with Acc/Attack/Weaponskill Damage+% for the Master. (Can use Valorous if Lucky)
    We need a Physical Ready Set with Accuracy and Attack for the Pet (Can use Valorous if Lucky)
    We need a Magical Ready Set with M.Acc and MABfor the Pet. (Can use Valorous if Lucky)

    We need an alternative for Charmer's Merlin and Desultor Tassets. One of the AF pieces should have gotten Ready recast -5/-10 for +2/+3 respectively.
    We need Reward II on the AF not Reward as we already easily cap on Reward.
    (1)
    Last edited by Skyrant_Kangaroomouse; 12-14-2016 at 07:31 PM.
    Is 20 dmg for the hit like 30 dmg if a RNG shoots?

    No DRG for party, camp spot site with 30 dmg, but is it for 20 like 30 dmg when you no hit be it for dd, for 30 dmg instead? or half is 10 for 20 dmg?
    How i mine for fish?
    Try BST BST COR GEO WHM BRD You can melee and fight with your pet..

  2. #12
    Player Skyrant_Kangaroomouse's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    76
    Character
    Skyrant
    World
    Asura
    Main Class
    NIN Lv 99
    Click me for Spreadsheet with BST AF+3 compared to Summoner AF+2/3

    Summary:
    Beastmaster has the exact same Accuracy as Summoner: 240 and gets +46 Evasion, -114 Magic Evasion, +7% haste

    Beastmaster Pet -149 accuracy, -219 Magic Accuracy, -5% Haste, +70 Attack however SMN get's +26 Bloodpact Damage which will make up for the 70 Attack.

    Summoner gets the identical amount of Accuracy but also gets 149 more Accuracy an 219 more Magic Accuracy for the Pet. How does that make any sense?

    Someone at SE is not paying attention or simply hates BST. I can't think of any other reason why else they would give BST half the attributes SMN or the rest of the jobs get.
    (1)
    Last edited by Skyrant_Kangaroomouse; 12-14-2016 at 07:34 PM.
    Is 20 dmg for the hit like 30 dmg if a RNG shoots?

    No DRG for party, camp spot site with 30 dmg, but is it for 20 like 30 dmg when you no hit be it for dd, for 30 dmg instead? or half is 10 for 20 dmg?
    How i mine for fish?
    Try BST BST COR GEO WHM BRD You can melee and fight with your pet..

  3. #13
    Player Nyarlko's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2015
    Posts
    1,523
    Character
    Nyarlko
    World
    Asura
    Main Class
    BST Lv 99
    Quote Originally Posted by Skyrant_Kangaroomouse View Post
    Click me for Spreadsheet with BST AF+3 compared to Summoner AF+2/3

    Summary:
    Beastmaster has the exact same Accuracy as Summoner: 240 and gets +46 Evasion, -114 Magic Evasion, +7% haste

    Beastmaster Pet -149 accuracy, -219 Magic Accuracy, -5% Haste, +70 Attack however SMN get's +26 Bloodpact Damage which will make up for the 70 Attack.

    Summoner gets the identical amount of Accuracy but also gets 149 more Accuracy an 219 more Magic Accuracy for the Pet. How does that make any sense?

    Someone at SE is not paying attention or simply hates BST. I can't think of any other reason why else they would give BST half the attributes SMN or the rest of the jobs get.

    I've got a feeling they just don't want to deal with the whiners who'd get loud about BST functioning properly. They nerfed BST hard last year w/ the JA range reductions in response to whiners then, why would they want to reopen that can of worms at this point? They also have a bit of a bad history with pet jobs in general. I imagine that they find it hard to balance them so that they don't put out too much more damage than a melee who is only a single source of damage output while also trying to allow the jobs to not-suck. They seem to have an idea about how to do so with SMN and PUP, since all they get are steady buffs for at least the last year, but are afraid of the backlash if they did the same for BST. I don't think that the devs actually "hate BST", but probably do see it as a headache at this point and just don't want to touch it. >_>

    This is the only explanation I can come up with for a lot of the design decisions about several jobs, BST included. Have you looked at BRD AF119+3? The ONLY thing that's "good" about it is tons of macc and an extra Lullaby+1.. Lots of extra skill and stuff, but skill is capped naked on 99% of songs so that does as much for BRD as extra Reward potency does for BST... I guess we can take comfort in knowing we are not the only job that SE doesn't care about? :/

    Most of the SMN that I know who I've heard complain about acc issues were complaining due to the difficulty to keep up AMs. The actual damage output from SMN melee doesn't matter (even to the SMNs themselves) they just want TP to keep up pet buffs basically. Lack of master attack or other dmg stats doesn't matter as long as they are not hitting for zero.
    (2)

  4. #14
    Player Shiyo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    705
    Character
    Kitori
    World
    Bahamut
    Main Class
    NIN Lv 99
    Quote Originally Posted by Skyrant_Kangaroomouse View Post
    Fun when we still had to charm pets, when we carefully selected pets to get an advantage against mobs,
    75 cap bst was great and some of the best fun I've ever had in FFXI. After 75 cap the job has been an abomination.
    Quote Originally Posted by Nyarlko View Post
    I've got a feeling they just don't want to deal with the whiners who'd get loud about BST functioning properly. They nerfed BST hard last year w/ the JA range reductions in response to whiners then, why would they want to reopen that can of worms at this point?
    Whiners? The job was absolutely disgusting - you could literally hold down your dawn muslum macro with a paper weigh and go AFK and come back to a dead boss.

    That type gameplay needs to NEVER come back, EVER.
    (0)
    Last edited by Shiyo; 12-16-2016 at 04:19 PM.

  5. #15
    Player Nyarlko's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2015
    Posts
    1,523
    Character
    Nyarlko
    World
    Asura
    Main Class
    BST Lv 99
    Quote Originally Posted by Shiyo View Post
    Whiners? The job was absolutely disgusting - you could literally hold down your dawn muslum macro with a paper weigh and go AFK and come back to a dead boss.

    That type gameplay needs to NEVER come back, EVER.
    That sounds like it was an issue with the item "Dawn Mulsum", not with the job itself. Pet white dmg was never extreme enough to allow one to "go AFK and come back to a dead boss." DMs aren't exactly dirt cheap, don't stack, and have to be used from inventory. Even if you had a rapidfire keyboard, trying to do what you suggested would not be able to work as you would end up burning thru them faster than what auto-attack damage is capable of. I don't know about you, but I would most definitely hesitate to consider blowing 2mil+ in non-stackable consumables per T1 fight as a valid strategy. Interesting note tho, not one thing has changed to prevent such a strategy from being used right now. <_<;;

    I've gone thru the old posts when I first came back last year (right before the nerf kicked in btw. By the time I had BST unlocked, the nerf was already in place, and I've always had to deal with the myriad problems it created.) The majority of the complaints at the time boiled down to BST being able to succeed in lower-end endgame w/ less extreme gear requirements (namely accuracy and dt-) when compared to melees, or complaints about Bertha's AOE being too powerful, or the amount of damage that Ready moves do in general. The JA range nerf did nothing to address any of the complaints directly, but "solved" the issue by making BST far less attractive to play for those not already invested in the job. They managed to chase off the bandwagoners, and fewer BSTs running around meant that those issues became less visible, hence less complained about. Our damage output remained the same, it just became harder to actually play the job due to wonky distance bugs.

    As an aside, my BLU out dps's my BST, and can crank out Light SCs faster than Patrick can crank out Fusions for more WS damage AND more SC damage. ^^;; My THF is about on par with my BST, and can crank out massive Darkness. When I first came back last year, one of the first CP parties I was in (as BLM) had a DNC who was cranking out self double Darkness for 99999.. I honestly never really understood why the devs bothered to nerf BST at all given what other jobs were capable of at the time.
    (3)
    Last edited by Nyarlko; 12-17-2016 at 01:55 AM.

  6. #16
    Player Jakuk's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Posts
    363
    Character
    Jakuk
    World
    Phoenix
    Main Class
    PUP Lv 99
    Quote Originally Posted by Nyarlko View Post
    As an aside, my BLU out dps's my BST, and can crank out Light SCs faster than Patrick can crank out Fusions for more WS damage AND more SC damage. ^^;; My THF is about on par with my BST, and can crank out massive Darkness. When I first came back last year, one of the first CP parties I was in (as BLM) had a DNC who was cranking out self double Darkness for 99999.. I honestly never really understood why the devs bothered to nerf BST at all given what other jobs were capable of at the time.
    Because they have a risk factor of being in range, BST never had that on top of a 87.5% -DT cap. While stil dishing out ridiculous damage, only issue was they went above and beyond and reduced the range for JA usage way too low, which results in problems even when standing on top of your pet.

    That said, you wont be hard pushed to find most people are not to fond of how OP BLU is either.
    (0)

  7. #17
    Player Shiyo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    705
    Character
    Kitori
    World
    Bahamut
    Main Class
    NIN Lv 99
    Quote Originally Posted by Nyarlko View Post
    As an aside, my BLU out dps's my BST, and can crank out Light SCs faster than Patrick can crank out Fusions for more WS damage AND more SC damage. ^^;; My THF is about on par with my BST, and can crank out massive Darkness. When I first came back last year, one of the first CP parties I was in (as BLM) had a DNC who was cranking out self double Darkness for 99999.. I honestly never really understood why the devs bothered to nerf BST at all given what other jobs were capable of at the time.
    All of those jobs have to be in range of the enemy and actually have to deal with enemies mechanics, bst didn't.

    Bluemage is completely broken.

    An item being expensive doesn't mean it's ok that you can sit 20 yards away and literally not do anything but mash your sic and dawn muslum button over and over again ignoring 100% of an enemies mechanics and then collect loot.
    (0)

  8. #18
    Player Urmom's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2016
    Posts
    447
    Character
    Urmom
    World
    Shiva
    Main Class
    GEO Lv 99
    Quote Originally Posted by Shiyo View Post
    Whiners? The job was absolutely disgusting - you could literally hold down your dawn muslum macro with a paper weigh and go AFK and come back to a dead boss.

    That type gameplay needs to NEVER come back, EVER.
    If by literally you mean not at all then sure. Because guess what nothing has changed that would stop what you just said. The reason why it wouldn't work is because 1. Non ready dmg is horrible. A trust would do as much. 2. Those things don't stack and even with a full invent you'd run out before then.

    What would really happen if you did that is you'd end up doing like maybe 100 dps. Waste 1million gil over the course of a couple minute and after that your pet will slowly die while the boss is still at 98%

    Quote Originally Posted by Shiyo View Post
    An item being expensive doesn't mean it's ok that you can sit 20 yards away and literally not do anything but mash your sic and dawn muslum button over and over again ignoring 100% of an enemies mechanics and then collect loot.
    First off it's ready not sic. Stop making it so obvious you haven't played the job since 75. 2nd dawn muslum was again crap. It was a last resort for a small portion of the bst community usually while soloing if reward was down and was gunna die. 3rd how is that any worse than rng literally not do anything but mash the shoot and ws button ignoring anything? Or how about smn just mashing bp button and resmn if it dies. Or blms just casting like 3 nukes and a couple of aspirs over the course of a whole fight. Or pup just afking until maneuvers are up every 5 minutes. Or heck me afking most the time tanking as pld. Or geos being one of the most OP job and just keeping up 1 debuff and 1 buff at a time. Or geo just using vex/attunment to make the whole pt ignore most of an enemies mechanics. Or geo doing anything
    (3)
    Last edited by Urmom; 12-17-2016 at 11:43 AM.

  9. #19
    Player Urmom's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2016
    Posts
    447
    Character
    Urmom
    World
    Shiva
    Main Class
    GEO Lv 99
    Quote Originally Posted by Jakuk View Post
    BST never had that on top of a 87.5% -DT cap. While stil dishing out ridiculous damage,
    While that is the pet cap it's completely impossible for jugs to reach it outside of atmas. I forget the exact gearing at the time but total achievable dt was around 50-60%. A couple of meh jugs had some mdt or bdt on them. And several had sdts to specific elements and/or physical dmg types... but they also often came with other weaknesses too.

    Also let's not exaggerate. The dmg was good but not ridiculous. Plenty of other jobs do great and smn now destroys that while staying out of range itself
    (1)

  10. #20
    Player Shiyo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    705
    Character
    Kitori
    World
    Bahamut
    Main Class
    NIN Lv 99
    Please don't defend the pre-nerf bst playstyle.
    (0)

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