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  1. #1
    Player Olor's Avatar
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    Mar 2011
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    2,134

    Please boost BRD to make it competitive again

    I really love BRD, but let's be honest, there isn't much of a place for it in current content now that GEO is out and so much better. BRD's buffs can't touch GEO's buffs.

    Is it possible we could see some kind of boost for BRD to make it more competitive with GEO? This would be good not only for BRD players but for the playerbase who will be able to use BRD in more content and therefore not have to have a GEO for every single party.

    Thanks in advance.

    People who know the math about just how far off BRD is from GEO - please do feel free to post it! I know it's out there, but I am not familiar with it offhand.

    Cheers!
    (14)
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  2. #2
    Player Fermande's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2015
    Posts
    7
    Character
    Fermande
    World
    Odin
    Main Class
    BRD Lv 99
    Agreed. In the AMA, SE said that there are no problems with BRD vs. GEO, but it's clear that GEO is used and BRD is not. I'd love to use my BRD again, but nobody wants a BRD anymore. I feel really bad for people who got the relic or empyrean for it...
    (2)

  3. #3
    Player Vae's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2016
    Posts
    244
    Character
    Vaelira
    World
    Asura
    Main Class
    THF Lv 99
    Considering BRD had a stranglehold as the only buffer for the first 7(?) years. And remained top buffer even after cor for the next 4. It's not unreasonable to leave bard where it's at. It's still used. Not as much, but still used.

    The only way to buff bard, is nerf geo AND blu. Bards only real role was marching. Minuet and madrigal were a side effect.
    (0)

  4. #4
    Player Shiyo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    705
    Character
    Kitori
    World
    Bahamut
    Main Class
    NIN Lv 99
    "it was good for x years and now its time for other jobs to be good too!" is not how you balance a game.
    (6)

  5. #5
    Player OmnysValefor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Posts
    1,186
    Quote Originally Posted by Vae View Post
    Considering BRD had a stranglehold as the only buffer for the first 7(?) years. And remained top buffer even after cor for the next 4. It's not unreasonable to leave bard where it's at. It's still used. Not as much, but still used.

    The only way to buff bard, is nerf geo AND blu. Bards only real role was marching. Minuet and madrigal were a side effect.
    Bard's "stranglehold" doesn't justify being, at best, situational now. REM bards who rarely bring them out is a sad thing.

    GEO is a lot more powerful than Bard, but that power is necessary for a lot of high-end first clears. That's the job of buffers, to elevate your capabilities. Nerfing GEO would be a mistake. Bard simply needs an overhaul and a look at how to make their advantages more valuable. Mobility, freedom from mp, variety of buffs to variety of people are all 'advantages', they're just largely outdated. As has been said, nerfing GEO only nerfs everyone which is fine for the people with an Aeonic factory (maybe) but makes the ascent harder for anyone else.

    I don't want to derail this thread but the nature of BLU is not why people don't bring bards. In many situations, it's preferable to bring a second (or sometimes third--defensive buffs) GEO over a bard.
    (3)

  6. #6
    Player VoiceMemo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    525
    Character
    Voicememo
    World
    Asura
    Main Class
    BRD Lv 99
    I've been asking for brd buff for years, ever since geo came out. I'm not holding my breath though, I think SE thinks brd is powerful enough and that we take same role as geo. Here's what I had asked in the ffxi AMA:

    Q:
    Can you discuss your plans with bard? When compared to Geomancer, they can do every major spell that bard can with a higher boost because their spells work off percentages, ie ATT, ACC, haste, def.

    Geomancer also has the advantage of being completely unresistable because of the bubbles being aura. They can also affect the mob with spells that bard does not have, ie magic defense bonus down, defense down, magic evasion down, magic accuracy down, magic attack bonus down, and evasion down.

    These points combined with the fact that most fights have time limit(15 minutes) and scale with HP over 6 people is why now alot of fights exclude bard because bard becomes a luxury job. To do a fight with 6 alot use the Tank, Healer, Geo, SCH, BLM, BLM strategy.

    Se's Answer:
    The roles for geomancers and bard differ, so it’s difficult to make a direct comparison. Once it’s at a point where we need to make adjustments, we may do something, but we currently have nothing planned in particular.

    I then asked this, but got no reply:
    How exactly do bard and geomancer differ? Geo has offensive nukes yes, but the playerbase don't play geo that way, much like how ninja was designed differently yet players used it as a tank. Geo is used by plays players as buffer and debuffer, so in effect it has taken the place for both bard and red mage.
    (1)

  7. #7
    Player Zhronne's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Italy
    Posts
    1,049
    Character
    Sechs
    World
    Asura
    Main Class
    MNK Lv 99
    I use GEO to nuke :O And a lot of people I know use GEO to nuke as well! Granted it's not the primary role, it's an added icing on the cake that BRD doesn't have.

    The more preposterous thing about BRD is that to be effective it requires FOUR different legendary weapons. GEO requires only one and arguably even with just Dunna it's already incredibly powerful.
    BRD debuffs can be resisted and honestly they hardly matter anyway (Threnodies suck, even the T2 ones)
    BRD buffs offer way more versatility but they are static, do not scale, they are less powerful than what a GEO can offer even when stacked, they require more time to be applied and, worst of all, can be easily dispelled.
    Last but not least BRD offers much less interesting buffs, mostly focusing on melee stats.

    So what does SE mean when "their role differ"? BRD is a buffer more focused on melees and GEO is a buffer focused on... everything pretty much?


    I mean in a world where there's some remnant of balance the buffer who can get their buffs/debuffs resisted or dispelled would compensate that with slightly stronger buffs/debuffs, whereas the one who can't have them dispelled would have them slightly weaker.
    Here we have a GEO who cannot be resisted/dispelled and has stronger stuff, vs a job who has weaker stuff, can be resisted, dispelled and requires 4 legendary weapons.


    ...sounds balanced.
    (5)
    And the autumn of life has finally come
    with the promise of winter thaw.

  8. #8
    Player OmnysValefor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Posts
    1,186
    I can see where the "their roles differ" argument comes from.

    Bard has CC (lullaby) but that's not usually a big deal. In fact, it's usually irrelevant. Yeah GEO has sleep but only single targets (unless BLM) and so does, likely, half the alli.

    Bard has no dependence on MP. That's nice in certain content. It also means a versatility with subs that GEO doesn't have.

    Bard can provide a multitude of buffs to multiple people. But seldom do you bring mixed groups. You don't bring a Tank, Healer, Melee, (Melee or BLM), BLM, BLM, Buffer because then the melee needs babysat and and you're not really focusing the power of your group. Likewise, you don't bring melee for a zerg and put a blm in there for nuking because SCs are happening too fast.

    Apex parties are a shining example. Noone cares how much damage WS's do. You try to close with the better ws for the bonus to skillchain damage but noone cares what damage the ws's actually do. You do malaise, haste and entrust acumen or refresh as needed.

    If you DID want to bring a mixed group, your best avenue would be Tank, Healer, Melee, (Melee or BLM), GEO, GEO. One geo for the melee, one for the mages, and they can cautiously burst with the BLM.

    The problem with Bard is that it's still queen of 75 mechanics in a 119 world. People TP so fast as to incidentally self SC.

    Too late to change it now, but Honor March should have probably been the 1200 gift, and not tied to yet another weapon bard has to try to get.
    (4)
    Last edited by OmnysValefor; 10-28-2016 at 11:03 PM.

  9. #9
    Player Afania's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Posts
    1,445
    Character
    Afania
    World
    Bahamut
    Main Class
    BRD Lv 1
    Quote Originally Posted by Zhronne View Post
    So what does SE mean when "their role differ"?
    Tbh when SE said "their role differ" I think it may be mistranslation? Maybe what they really meant is "their buffs stack and doesn't share same buff slots".

    One example is that if you do melee woc/kirin/T4, you may need honor march to hit required acc comfortably on many lower acc DD jobs. Just having GEO often isn't enough especially if DD's trying to maintain enough multi attack.

    In that case (Aeonic)BRD is pretty much a must have in pt and that somehow fits what they say if it meant "their buffs stack and doesn't share same buff slots".

    I don't know if SE refuse to buff BRD is because they're worried about people stacking BRD+GEO in endgame accomplishing higher DPS output than T4 difficulty should be.
    (0)
    Last edited by Afania; 10-29-2016 at 03:45 PM.

  10. #10
    Player Olor's Avatar
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    Mar 2011
    Posts
    2,134
    Thanks for all the folks who chimed in with support. I love bard and I do sometimes see people asking for them, but very very rarely. GEO has a huge advantage with undispellable buffs that are stronger.

    I don't want geo nerfed, I just want bard to be buffed a bit so it's a closer thing.
    (0)
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