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  1. #151
    Player Zhronne's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Italy
    Posts
    1,050
    Character
    Sechs
    World
    Asura
    Main Class
    MNK Lv 99
    Quote Originally Posted by Fae View Post
    So you told us SE told us that threnody values aren't equivalent to magic evasion debuffs
    I don't think SE said that? I wish, but they didn't afaik.


    you said things about magic acc skill to magic acc values which is on weapons
    No?
    I said that, unlike what most player thought, Elemental resist isn't the same as magic evasion but applying to a single element.
    That's what most players believed for the longest time, that 10 thunder resist = 10 meva but for thunder only.
    That's not true, as showed by the Threnodies values which are very far from the Languor numbers.
    The "conversion" thing was about that, it was just an example.
    1 Fire resist does not correspond to 1 Meva for fire based stuff, period.


    then claim SE tells us faulty things
    SE did tell us some wrong values with that data, but after players reported them, they got fixed.
    The part about SE giving us "wrong threnodies data" was my mistake, which I already corrected many posts ago, quoting the original source.
    SE never gave us threnodies numbers at all, they were found out by players through the in-game /equip menu, which displays elemental resist + and -


    And now that they do say they will buff bard, you're unhappy with it
    I'm sure we're all happy with it, it's just that while it's a very welcome change, it wont' "fix" the current issues bard is experiencing and, once again, they are fixing it through equipment, which is exactely the opposite of what every bard was asking for.
    While BRD will surely be more desirable from now on, it hardly changes a lot in the grand scheme of support job balance.
    (1)
    And the autumn of life has finally come
    with the promise of winter thaw.

  2. #152
    Player Nyarlko's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2015
    Posts
    1,523
    Character
    Nyarlko
    World
    Asura
    Main Class
    BST Lv 99
    New gear does not equate to a buff to any job, particularly when it is being added to whitewash over known existing flaws within the game design.
    (1)

  3. #153
    Player Shiyo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    705
    Character
    Kitori
    World
    Bahamut
    Main Class
    NIN Lv 99
    Just make honor march a job gift instead of something you obtain from beating the entire game and it would be kinda ok.
    (1)

  4. #154
    Player Urmom's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2016
    Posts
    447
    Character
    Urmom
    World
    Shiva
    Main Class
    GEO Lv 99
    Quote Originally Posted by Shiyo View Post
    Just make honor march a job gift instead of something you obtain from beating the entire game and it would be kinda ok.
    And have the buffs have equivalents that work for everyone. Give acc/racc/macc, att/ratt/mab, haste/fast cast/snapshot. For master and pets
    (0)

  5. #155
    Player Shiyo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    705
    Character
    Kitori
    World
    Bahamut
    Main Class
    NIN Lv 99
    There's actually no reason that pets shouldn't be buffable.
    (0)

  6. #156
    Player OmnysValefor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Posts
    1,186
    There's several reasons. Pets (sorry, late edit: bst and smn) aren't bound by TP. BST and PUP pets are far sturdier than players. PUP pets are sometimes the best tank for a task and SMN pets are disposable if necessary.

    Pet jobs also have some of the most powerful 1hr's in the game. Pets would have to be reevaluated to make sure opening them up to more/all buffs didn't make them absurdly OP.

    Far more apparent at 99-0, player pets seem to take damage differently than players. They would regularly resist or partially resist things that would devastate their masters.
    (2)
    Last edited by OmnysValefor; 12-14-2016 at 12:33 PM.

  7. #157
    Player Shiyo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    705
    Character
    Kitori
    World
    Bahamut
    Main Class
    NIN Lv 99
    Summoner pets don't have any of those things.
    They have passive 50% PDT and high resist based on their element though.
    (0)

  8. #158
    Player OmnysValefor's Avatar
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    Oct 2012
    Posts
    1,186
    Actually yes they do.

    BPs don't require TP but their attacks scale with TP. I'm not sure if this was always the case with SMN. BST's ready moves used to require TP but no longer do.
    (0)

  9. #159
    Player Zhronne's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Italy
    Posts
    1,050
    Character
    Sechs
    World
    Asura
    Main Class
    MNK Lv 99
    Quote Originally Posted by OmnysValefor View Post
    There's several reasons. Pets (sorry, late edit: bst and smn) aren't bound by TP. BST and PUP pets are far sturdier than players. PUP pets are sometimes the best tank for a task and SMN pets are disposable if necessary.

    Pet jobs also have some of the most powerful 1hr's in the game. Pets would have to be reevaluated to make sure opening them up to more/all buffs didn't make them absurdly OP.

    Far more apparent at 99-0, player pets seem to take damage differently than players. They would regularly resist or partially resist things that would devastate their masters.
    While I agree with you, I think our point of view and Shiyo's aren't too far off.

    Pets are like this as a way SE used to "compensate" for the fact you can't directly buff them.
    If pets were buffable just like players, many of the currently built-in bonuses (DT, ilevel correction, stats etc) would be much different from what we get nowadays.


    I'm not sure if this was always the case with SMN
    Aside some magical BPs (merit ones and a couple others) it wasn't.
    Damage scaling with TP is a new thing added in the november 2016 patch.
    (0)
    And the autumn of life has finally come
    with the promise of winter thaw.

  10. #160
    Player Urmom's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2016
    Posts
    447
    Character
    Urmom
    World
    Shiva
    Main Class
    GEO Lv 99
    Quote Originally Posted by OmnysValefor View Post
    There's several reasons. Pets (sorry, late edit: bst and smn) aren't bound by TP. BST and PUP pets are far sturdier than players. PUP pets are sometimes the best tank for a task and SMN pets are disposable if necessary.

    Pet jobs also have some of the most powerful 1hr's in the game. Pets would have to be reevaluated to make sure opening them up to more/all buffs didn't make them absurdly OP.

    Far more apparent at 99-0, player pets seem to take damage differently than players. They would regularly resist or partially resist things that would devastate their masters.
    Jug pet survivability is less of an issue now with the range.

    This is kind of part of the problem SE has put themselves into. Long before they started buffing these jobs there was talk about letting you buff the pets but they instead went with compensating for the lack of buffs. The problems that arise is said compensation is more or less static so you no matter how you do it chances are the pets will do decently better in low buff situations but you'd never make them good enough to compete with a buffed melee. That leads you to seeing a bunch in lower content where buffs aren't needed and making them unable to do much against higher tier stuff.

    One thing you can do is change the potency. Like how pet food gives twice as much of a stat to the pet as the master you could make it so buffs on master have a portion say half the potency on the pet. Or you could decently limit how many can be applied like how drg can transfer some of it's buffs but only a few at a time with spirit link/empathy

    As far as the resisting goes though pets in general have kind of lost that. It's not been quantified but they've gained very little since 99 while the rest of the world and more importantly the monsters have gained a ton. It almost seems like they totally or mostly forgot the meva stat with ilvl pets or something. Macc suffers a bit as well. Melee base dmg also has the same problem it's literally not increased at all since 99 with only boosts being from the increase in base stats so all pets will only melee about 5-10% harder at 119+ than at 99 while melees have over doubled their base dmgs. Which is partly why they need such powerful moves not dependent on tp (except poor pup) because holy heck the melee dmg is terribad not even counting the slowness at which they get tp (except again pup lol)
    (1)
    Last edited by Urmom; 12-21-2016 at 03:36 AM.

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