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  1. #131
    Player Olor's Avatar
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    Mar 2011
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    2,134
    Quote Originally Posted by detlef View Post
    Don't forget that Songs +10 would be 72 more seconds of duration for Ghorn 99 buffs. That'd be pretty awesome... for pre-buffing and dropping.
    ha!

    Well, at least Ghorn isn't *that* ridiculous to get. If they bumped it that much I'd actually feel it was worth the effort - even if it wasn't enough to get more parties really.
    (0)
    http://photobucket.com/gallery/http://s19.photobucket.com/user/soulchld4/media/Olorinus-Signature.jpg.html

  2. #132
    Player Urmom's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2016
    Posts
    447
    Character
    Urmom
    World
    Shiva
    Main Class
    GEO Lv 99
    Quote Originally Posted by detlef View Post
    Don't forget that Songs +10 would be 72 more seconds of duration for Ghorn 99 buffs. That'd be pretty awesome... for pre-buffing and dropping.
    Full time marcato songs!!!
    (0)

  3. #133
    Player OmnysValefor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Posts
    1,186
    Quote Originally Posted by Olor View Post
    ha!

    Well, at least Ghorn isn't *that* ridiculous to get. If they bumped it that much I'd actually feel it was worth the effort - even if it wasn't enough to get more parties really.
    A relic can cost less than 50m to 99.

    If you enjoy the job, horn is very very worth it already, even if bard's not in a great spot.
    (0)

  4. #134
    Player saevel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Posts
    2,345
    Character
    Saevel
    World
    Asura
    Main Class
    RDM Lv 99
    Quote Originally Posted by Nyarlko View Post
    The sad part is that even if ghorn had songs+10, we'd still be the underdogs w/ weaker buffs that can be dispelled, and debuffs that can be resisted.
    Minuet V = atk+62, each song+1 gives add'l atk+4 (above +1, which oddly only gives atk+1.) So MinV w/ songs+10 would give atk+99. That is less than half what a Dunna GEO's Fury would give the average 119+ geared melee... People like to argue that you can stack songs, but the end result is that BRD is going to be inherently weaker than GEO when it comes to buffing, at this time. That same GEO could also toss out a Frailty and double up the atk difference. :/

    The only solution is to give BRD an overhaul. Convert direct combat buffs to a percentage basis, raise the combined cap to 900, and scale it so that, in comparable gear, 2x songs = 1x bubble.
    Ok stop.

    There is a huge difference between static and percentage buffs. Percentage buffs are tacked on at the end while static buffs happen before the percentage buffs. Take a job like BLU/WAR that applies Berserk and Natures Meditation. Give them +100 attack (easy math to use) before and it's now 145 attack, add on Chaos and / or Fury and that number gets bigger. This is why Honor March is so powerful, that 184 buff to base attack ratchets up to some pretty silly numbers once you start layering stuff on. BRD having static buffs is a good thing, they just need to scale better with skill. Minute V should be 100 cap @900 skill and +5~10 per additional "+ song". Doing an across the board increase to the skill cap along with scaling would greatly increase BRD's offensive power in melee orientated parties.
    (3)
    Quote Originally Posted by Raelix
    Ragnarok's aftermath is only 5% crit rate, even with lv99, so there's almost no point in using Scourge, you just spam Resolution. Even then you become just a boring meathead DD.

    Apoc with both Catastrophe and Entropy gives you crazy sustain of both HP and MP. With the Haste aftermath you can wear a ton of -PDT and solo almost any 75 content.
    Doing damage is for WAR's, DRK is about soloing 75 content yo.....

  5. #135
    Player Olor's Avatar
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    Mar 2011
    Posts
    2,134
    Quote Originally Posted by OmnysValefor View Post
    A relic can cost less than 50m to 99.

    If you enjoy the job, horn is very very worth it already, even if bard's not in a great spot.
    I am currently holding on to all my currency from dynamis farming, but I'm more likely to go for Aegis than a ghorn at this point, unless something changes big time for bard.
    (0)
    http://photobucket.com/gallery/http://s19.photobucket.com/user/soulchld4/media/Olorinus-Signature.jpg.html

  6. #136
    Player Nyarlko's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2015
    Posts
    1,523
    Character
    Nyarlko
    World
    Asura
    Main Class
    BST Lv 99
    Quote Originally Posted by saevel View Post
    Ok stop.

    There is a huge difference between static and percentage buffs. Percentage buffs are tacked on at the end while static buffs happen before the percentage buffs. Take a job like BLU/WAR that applies Berserk and Natures Meditation. Give them +100 attack (easy math to use) before and it's now 145 attack, add on Chaos and / or Fury and that number gets bigger. This is why Honor March is so powerful, that 184 buff to base attack ratchets up to some pretty silly numbers once you start layering stuff on. BRD having static buffs is a good thing, they just need to scale better with skill. Minute V should be 100 cap @900 skill and +5~10 per additional "+ song". Doing an across the board increase to the skill cap along with scaling would greatly increase BRD's offensive power in melee orientated parties.
    I used Minuet as an example because the effects of both Minuet and Fury are easily verified by using /checkparam. I'm not asking for a change to only Minuet tho, or only melee oriented songs. If songs were converted to a percentage based scaling of buff effects, that would allow for continued parity with other support jobs as player stats continue to climb. The only way that increasing static values would not be a mere stopgap would be to make them insanely stronger than what any other job is capable of providing, which IMO is a "bad idea" for the record. :x Player stats will eventually outpace any sort of reasonable static value buffs, which would only bring us back to the point we're at now.

    Percentage based songs = "Hmm. Should we bring GEO or BRD for this fight?" < Parity = competition for the support spot
    Static high-value songs = "Hmm. If we have a GEO, then we want a BRD or DD. If no GEO, then grab a DD." < Being a support-of-support = competition for a DD spot dependent on having a support to support
    WAAAAYYY oversimplified and ignoring rest-of-group job composition and most other factors, but I can see the decision boiling down to something along those lines in a LOT of situations.
    So long as our final values compensate for the loss of stacking buff increases, I see zero problems with moving from static to percentage.

    Heck, I believe that given the other support jobs' ability to contribute directly to damage in addition to support, then a pure support like BRD should logically have greater buffs than they do to make up for it. I'm not gonna shoot for the moon though. I'm asking for equality among supports and I believe that, in addition to increased skill caps, a conversion to a percentage basis for our direct stat buff songs would be the simplest long-term solution.

    The goal should be roughly around the "2x songs = 1x bubble" mark, in comparable effort-to-obtain gear. The decision on which support to bring should be entirely based on what unique advantages each provides and not on numerical strength of buffs alone. If the numbers say that a top-class BRD with full RME can provide less than a Dunna GEO, there is simply something wrong that needs to be fixed.

    Also.... ABSOLUTELY NO JOB should be balanced around assumption of possession of a certain "Ultimate Weapon". Yes, Honor March is badass. No, it should not be used as a basis for balancing the job around UNLESS they gave it to us baseline. That would be like balancing THF around having access to Mercy Stroke after buffing it.
    (1)
    Last edited by Nyarlko; 12-04-2016 at 12:27 AM.

  7. #137
    Player Shiyo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    705
    Character
    Kitori
    World
    Bahamut
    Main Class
    NIN Lv 99
    I'm not sure why people don't also complain about the fact that a Geo can magic burst for tens of thousands of damage while providing the strongest buffs in the game bar none. Or also the fact that certain jobs like RDM can't even do their role of enfeebler on certain fights that are LITERALLY DESIGNED AROUND BEING ENFEEBLED(Maju) without a geo giving them as much macc and lowering mobs mevasion as much as possible so they can land their enfeebles to disable a mobs aura/mechanic.

    The job just does not belong in the game.

    Nerf geo to the ground so that other other support jobs are actually good again and stop balancing bosses around geo buffs.
    (1)
    Last edited by Shiyo; 12-04-2016 at 04:53 AM.

  8. #138
    Player Reain's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Posts
    62
    Character
    Reain
    World
    Sylph
    Main Class
    BRD Lv 99
    I'd concur it seems especially generous to give Geomancer elemental, enfeebling and dark magic while Bard hasn't figured out how to dual wield.
    (5)

  9. #139
    Player
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    San d'Oria
    Posts
    167
    I think first and foremost bard needs songs that effect pets, akin to corsair rolls.

    This would probably be one of the biggest buffs to the job and make it playable again, as a LOT of the meta on quetz is certainly pet burning fights. Being able to have songs that have "pet: accuracy+" or "Pet: Attack+" or whatever would be plenty to get the job back on the party list.
    (2)

  10. #140
    Player Zhronne's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Italy
    Posts
    1,050
    Character
    Sechs
    World
    Asura
    Main Class
    MNK Lv 99
    Devs just posted.
    Their idea of fixing bard is to add new "All Songs +" equipment in slot other than the instrument one.
    Sigh...


    Aside from the sadness bursting out of such a weak choice, we can at least rejoice *something* is gonna happen to BRD.
    Let's just hope these new items won't be too hard to obtain.
    Honor March is gonna get quite... interesting.
    (0)
    And the autumn of life has finally come
    with the promise of winter thaw.

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