Please boost BRD to make it competitive again

[OmnysValefor]

When comparing GEO to BRD this is what the typical player does:
BRD: can boost attack by static amount
GEO: Can lower def and raise attack by high % amounts

OMG GEO SO MUCH BETTER.

The problem is the typical player isn't really looking at the big picture, and hates complicated ideas because they require them to think and consider many things at a time rather than have simple powerful ideas that are easy to repeat. This is a downfall of human nature, not just ffxi players, a lot of the power of BRD isn't in such simple comparisons.

When you're giving one spot to a buffer, you have to consider who gives the larger effective gain. Static attack buffs DO add to the base amount, making percentage buffs (berserk, fury, etc) stronger but since one geo will give more attack than one bard, that really matters.

Especially in lowman content, which is what most of the game is.

GEO has a limit on spells over BRD. Basically:
- 1 Spell is empowered with GEO job abilities and geomancy+, up to 75% potency. In return the Buff cannot be moved and can take damage. On monsters that do not have a lot of AoE damage and with very good sets of DT and Luopan Regen, 75% potency - boost can be maintained full time (10 min cap on luopans and Blaze of Glory and Ecliptic are 10 min recasts).
- 1 Spell is empowered with geomancy +, and the GEO must be in range to use it as it is an area effect around them.
- 1 Spell can be entrusted, losing geomancy+ and given as an aura to a selected player. The recast on this JA is longer than the duration of the indi- spell meaning it can't be up full time.

These are all true. Luckily (honestly), most NMs do have aoes. Now it is true that the bubble can also be moved (highlighting it from menu and pressing control+left/right) but this is a cumbersome process and doesn't always protect the bubble from aoes, but it will from conals.

GEO spells are also lost on starting many fights, including all of Escha and UNMs. Meaning if fights are short, potency can not be maintained without going to get revitalizers all the time which isn't reasonable since they are short fights.

Having your buffs immovable, reset, limited to less than 3, and your most powerful version taking damage are very, very big drawbacks but not talked about because GEO is so potent.

Correct.

For BRD to compete, it's TOTAL power has to equate to that of GEO's 2.5 spells. However when people are makign comparisons, they are comparing 2 songs to 2 GEO debuffs when they were never made or meant to be equal from a design perspective. Let us take a look at why:

I'd love to know why 2.5 is the number you picked. A JSE Bard can do 3 songs (full time) in comparison to a Dunna's 2 bubbles full time and weaker bubble half time.

- BRD has up to 5 songs as buffs active on one person at a time. These songs can last over 11 minutes and are not reset for engagements and are not grounded to their location, or use auras.
- BRD can give different people different buffs. This already on top of their higher song limits vs geo spell limits, pushes them even further into use.
- BRD Debuffs are not included in any caps whatsoever, so you can basically always have access to them as long as they can land. BRD gets extremely high combined skill and thus magic accuracy.
- BRD is without question, the best crowd control in the game, where as GEO has no AoE crowd control whatsoever natively.
- BRD Buffs STACK with GEO buffs. Meaning if you did precision + torpor + entrust DEX and need more accuracy, adding a 2nd GEO isn't going to give you a lot of mileage that way. You could do 75% empowered Geo-Precision and Geo-Torpor and gain some attack defense boosts which is usually the way people tend to go because GEO is so ubiquitous. It is not however the way you should go if you want to max party slots.

Take these facts along with the fact most people do not know how to use BRD to it's potential (suggesting you do Threnody II instead of bringing a 2nd GEO so you can do languor will make most people roll their eyes or get angry even though it's an extremely potent magic evasion debuff and INT songs are things too for magic acc/base damage boosts), and you get a very lopsided misinformed rhetoric, that is repeated, and repeated again and never actually examined.

Unless they've changed something, threnodies (single-target magic-evasion-down) do not stack, meaning that if you want to be able to nuke the mob and enfeeble/stun it, GEO is probably going to be superior.

The detriments of GEO and the benefits of BRD would be more discussed if people were more informed and didn't shy from more complicated ideas and didn't directly compare 2 songs to everything a GEO can offer so often.

I know three RME bards, one (maybe two? never seen his bard) with afterglow carn. He had Horn and Harp always at max level when these were each tedious/hard/expensive things. He doesn't yet have Aeonic instrument, but will soon (we're a few HELMs away).

- Minne x2, March x2, Scherzo on Tank (Geo can't offer a scherzo like spell, and haste for tanks is often forgotten even though things like how often you flash and reprisal recasts are very important)

- Ballad x2, March x2, Scherzo on Healer (Recasts are important for a WHM as well, and while mana issues are far less these days extra MP allows you to be less conservative as a WHM)

Ballads aren't generally needed, especially for a whm that doesn't needlessly overcure. Marches can be nice but with a fair amount of haste on gear you're curing in, plus Haste / Haste II and /rdm or /sch (which is more preferable frequently), your recasts are pretty good.

- March x2, Minuet x2 or Etude x2 or Madrigal x2 or Prelude x2, Scherzo on DD
- March x2 or Ballad x2, Etude x2, Scherzo on Mages

You love bringing up Scherzo. In a mage-oriented fight, the tank is the only one usually taking significant damage and most things aren't going to kill a good Paladin or Rune Fencer. Usually, if the tank dies, something went wrong first. Outside of Death Strategies, Ballad isn't a must either (it's not a must there, but it is nice).

If you don't deem Scherzo as necessary for a fight you can also replace it with something else, but it's duration with CC is over 23 mins.

Now let's combine that with debuffs:
- Threnody II for up to 360 elemental evasion down, 180 without potency boosts
- Elegy for potent 50% slow
- Nocturne for potent addle effecct
- Light Based extremely accurate dispel from finale

Enfeebles (Slow particularly) just aren't hugely important. Nocturne is nice, but doesn't stack with addle. BG says "Nothing about Nocturne's [potency] has been quantified", which made me laugh.

The other mistake people make is comparing things like threnody II to Gambit/Rayke which will always increase damage, but threnody just like if magic acc is capped and you use langour or frazzle will not increase damage.

GEO is used more than BRD, but one big reason for that is GEO can be very lazy and people are lazy. BRD to be fully effective has a LOT to do. Which most bards just... don't do. GEO on the other hand is infamous now for being a job you can cast 3 spells with JA on and afk for 10 mins on a lot of fights. Not that they SHOULD but it's simply something people do. Comparing all of above, BRD's additive power is very strong and very large. The one thing it can't bring to the table that GEO can do is lowering physical and magical defense so much. GEO becomes a powerhouse simply because of geo-malaise and geo-frailty being so strong. They also do not have to deal with resists to lower magic evasion like RDM or BRD does making them consistent. GEO is also very good for pet jobs, because BRD can not do a single thing to boost Pet damage, but through the use of powerful debuffs, Pet jobs are greatly benefited. Nothing in the game will boost damage as much as Geo-Frailty or Geo-Malaise, it can more than triple damage of either physical or magical damage, and geo-malaise especially is on a level far above what any other source can lower magic defense. It's those reasons GEO is used. In a DD setup it is actually optimal in most situations to bring a GEO for indi-fury, geo-frailty, and let the brd handle accuracy boosts, base attack boosts (which also helps fury) and marches and adding safety with scherzo.

If a geo's bubble dies, the geo recasts it. If a bard's songs are dispelled (can song effects be absorbed? probably but not sure), this takes a lot of time to recast. If you're rotating two two or three parties, this takes more time, if the dispel is wide.

So going forward, I hope people will compare ALL of BRD to ALL of GEO at least[...]

I try to play a little bit of devi's advocate in these discussions, but it sounds silly to repeatedly bring them up. I'm not saying you have, but that's why I don't.

Sometimes it's nice to say it short and sweet, bard is outdated and could use a look. If SE does not think Bard needs a buff, I would appreciate if they explained why in detail. "They serve different roles", is not enough of an answer.

Edit: Also, in many situations, a Dunna GEO is superior to an RME bard.

Nerf Idris? Makes the game harder on everyone. Nerf Dunna? Makes the game harder on people who need the help the most (since Bard is generally suboptimal). Update Bard

Please forgive me, I forgot that Bard's ability to prebuff also has the flaw of not actually needing it to participate in the fight. I'd go so far as to say that the songs are nice while they're up, but if they get dispelled, it's not a big deal in many situations (mage-Kouryu being a great example). Is it worth keeping the bard in for the full fight and adding to the HP of the monster when they're not really going to contribute much else throughout the fight?

Koryu will probably Hurricane Wing, dispelling everything but losing songs for the remainder of the fight (bard being outside) probably isn't the difference between whether you win or lose.