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  1. #1
    Player Oddwaffle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    69
    Character
    Yummypie
    World
    Leviathan
    Main Class
    WHM Lv 99

    Suggestion to Dual Wield and Martial Arts

    Dual Wield and Martial Arts give so much less TP for the same amount of delay compare to other weapons. With everyone seem to be able to reach the delay cap of 80%, the reduced TP effect on Dual Wields and Martial Arts became more pronounce.

    For example, a normal Melee/Sam with capped haste with gain about 160TP per 100 Delay (160/100) where as a Nin/Sam, Dnc/Sam or Mnk/Sam will only gain about 120~130TP per 100 Delay. I used /Sam because I have to use a calculator and it has 15 store TP built into it for Melee/Sam.

    Disregarding the difference between the WS damage or weapon damage or any other buffs (Double Attack, Jump, Triple Attack, Kick Attack...etc), Dual Wielding and Martial Arts users will need about 25~26 Store TP to reduce the loss of TP.

    Combine with the fact that there are so many Dual Wield and Martial Arts equipments that are very useful but can not be used due to the fact that they only reduce TP gain.


    I suggest the following solutions, any of them should work, in order of better fix:

    1. Remove the TP penalty from Dual Wield and Martial Arts

    2. Add Store TP I to IV trait to Mnk, Nin, Dnc and Thf.

    3. Introduce TP penalties to all JA delay reduction such as Hasso and Catastrophe Aftermath.
    (0)

  2. #2
    Player Catmato's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    605
    Quote Originally Posted by Oddwaffle View Post

    3. Introduce TP penalties to all JA delay reduction such as Hasso and Catastrophe Aftermath.
    Get the pitchforks.

    Seriously though, I'd just be happy with removing tp penalties for passing the 80% delay reduction cap.
    (0)

  3. #3
    Player crptaculous's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Posts
    41
    Character
    Craptaculous
    World
    Phoenix
    Main Class
    PUP Lv 99
    And PUP. Kenkonken and job traits tend to really screw over TP building for AM3. It seems to take nearly 2-3x longer to build 3000 TP vs pretty much any other job.
    (0)

  4. #4
    Player Urthdigger's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Bastok
    Posts
    313
    Character
    Urthdigger
    World
    Fenrir
    Main Class
    MNK Lv 99
    Hi, welcome to MNK: Where our only DPS "gift" is an active detriment to our DPS.
    (2)
    He once sold his soul to Promathia for a rare drop. He later won it back in a drinking contest, before beating up the twilight god for good measure.
    He's won dance-off trophies from the Republic of Bastok, the Duchy of Jeuno, and the Yagudo Theomilitary.
    He's won entire arguments with a single leer.
    He is the most interesting galka in the world.

  5. #5
    Player Oddwaffle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    69
    Character
    Yummypie
    World
    Leviathan
    Main Class
    WHM Lv 99
    Yes, I almost forgot pup. They really need the change H2H and Dual Wielding TP.
    (2)

  6. #6
    Player Nyarlko's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2015
    Posts
    1,523
    Character
    Nyarlko
    World
    Asura
    Main Class
    BST Lv 99
    I think the cleanest solution would be to limit the TP penalty to only that which is actually applied in order to hit attack delay cap.

    The biggest part of the problem is that you get penalized for the full MA/DW amount, even if you are only benefiting from a portion of it due to haste from gear/spells. If the penalty was capped to match the amount of MA/DW that is applied to actually reach delay cap, then it would no longer be a detriment to be over cap with them.. Any MA/DW beyond the 80% delay cap would still be wasted stat space, but at least it wouldn't actively hurt our overall damage output like it does right now.
    (1)
    Last edited by Nyarlko; 09-17-2016 at 04:02 PM.

  7. #7
    Player Oddwaffle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    69
    Character
    Yummypie
    World
    Leviathan
    Main Class
    WHM Lv 99
    You still get the normal penalty. DW and MA gains TP slower than 2H based on the same amount of delay (i.e. time passed) with no additional benefit. You lose roughly 25 store TP on H2H and DW and you are not attacking any faster under haste cap. Before, it wasn't common for people to ride the 80% haste cap so it wasn't that much of a problem as DW and MA means attacking faster. However, now it's fairly common to have 80% haste so DW and H2H are falling behind because the TP penalty.

    The penalty is quite significant for DW and H2H. A boost of 25 store TP could make these guys making 20~25% more WS (on average, without considering the X-hit built) given the same amount of time.

    Of course, there should be some considerations. The current major difference is caused by the use of delay reducing effects like Hasso and Catastrophe without any TP penalties. So instead of raising the TP gain from DW or MA, you can force a lower TP gain on delay reducing JA effects.

    And the TP penal over delay cap should be removed. That one is obvious.
    (1)
    Last edited by Oddwaffle; 09-18-2016 at 01:38 PM.

  8. #8
    Player Nyarlko's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2015
    Posts
    1,523
    Character
    Nyarlko
    World
    Asura
    Main Class
    BST Lv 99
    I honestly don't see too many 2h players running around outside of town these days. I also don't think I've ever seen shouts for DRK or WAR or DRG (outside of WAR/nin for aby procs lol). The issue is not that they are not being penalized and get more TP than DW/MA users, it's that DW/MA users are being penalized for stats which provide zero benefit. Some form of increased StoreTP would be much appreciated, but the priority should be removing the overcap penalty first. Devs are cautious about any sort of sweeping combat changes, so don't ask for the moon to start with.

    Baby steps. :x
    (0)