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  1. #21
    Player Diavolo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nyarlko View Post
    The addition of a dualboxed BLM cuts my old soloing times as BST by more than 1/2, and they weren't overly long to begin with. For stuff that is magic resistant, I switch the alt to GEO and cut my times by more than 1/2 by neutering the mob and switching to a physical damage trust team. My soloing go-to/default strategy is Patrick-Fusion > Fire MB from trusts. Replacing a trust w/ a real BLM or GEO allows me to safely/reliably/quickly run other players thru Escha-Zitah T1s on a single radialens. Downside where?
    The downside is that you have to settle for a dual boxed account at all and couldn't find an actual person to help you make your job even easier than the second account did, not to mention the $13+/month and inability to play both accounts to their full potential. I don't know about the rest of you, but I find logging into an MMORPG and interacting with other people far more interesting than interacting with my second account.

    Let's be real here, multiboxing offers a number of advantages, especially to those of us who would rather avoid contact with other human beings, are stuck on servers where help is hard to find or because you want a bigger piece of the proverbial pie. Those second, third and however many accounts will not, however, ever play better than your friend/linkshell mate/elite a-hole you might be scared to talk to and if they do, well, this is where I would say communication helps bridge the gap. MMORPGs are social in nature, at least those that pre-date WoW. If you want to go it alone or with as few human players as possible you're free to pay for as many accounts as you want, just make sure to offer more than a quick win to those players you're guiding through Zitah or they may wind up becoming the incompetent players some of you in here will replace by a second account down the line.
    (0)

  2. #22
    Player Nyarlko's Avatar
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    Nov 2015
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    Nyarlko
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    Asura
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    BST Lv 99
    Quote Originally Posted by Diavolo View Post
    The downside is that you have to settle for a dual boxed account at all and couldn't find an actual person to help you make your job even easier than the second account did, not to mention the $13+/month and inability to play both accounts to their full potential. I don't know about the rest of you, but I find logging into an MMORPG and interacting with other people far more interesting than interacting with my second account.

    Let's be real here, multiboxing offers a number of advantages, especially to those of us who would rather avoid contact with other human beings, are stuck on servers where help is hard to find or because you want a bigger piece of the proverbial pie. Those second, third and however many accounts will not, however, ever play better than your friend/linkshell mate/elite a-hole you might be scared to talk to and if they do, well, this is where I would say communication helps bridge the gap. MMORPGs are social in nature, at least those that pre-date WoW. If you want to go it alone or with as few human players as possible you're free to pay for as many accounts as you want, just make sure to offer more than a quick win to those players you're guiding through Zitah or they may wind up becoming the incompetent players some of you in here will replace by a second account down the line.
    I'm having quite enough fun playing both, both are well-geared (though not many BIS) and has nothing to do w/ "couldn't find an actual person" and more w/ "double rewards/drops and their ALL MINE BWAHAHA" XD (Basically means I really just don't buy upgrade items for the most part. Only thing I farm for gil is Legion.)

    I also have no issues playing w/ others, and having 2x BLM w/ Death, a well-tuned self-SC+MB duo, and/or an extra GEO on tap help my linkshells as well. ^^

    When I run people thru zitah t1s, its meant to be a fast n cheap way to give them a leg up to be able to join in on LS events, but I also always advise them to pay attention to what the mobs are doing so they have a clue next time they do the fight w/ someone other than me's. (Also, they are always LS members, so not exactly like I'm going to abandon them like a merc would after getting them some gear.)

    The only downside that I can agree to is the extra subscription fee. The enjoyment and benefits I get from running a 2nd account on my backup laptop tho is most definitely worth it to me. ^^
    (1)

  3. #23
    Player Diavolo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nyarlko View Post
    I'm having quite enough fun playing both, both are well-geared (though not many BIS) and has nothing to do w/ "couldn't find an actual person" and more w/ "double rewards/drops and their ALL MINE BWAHAHA" XD (Basically means I really just don't buy upgrade items for the most part. Only thing I farm for gil is Legion.)
    Right, that's been my point all along - the choice to play multiple characters instead of having people fill those roles often comes down to greed, the fact that we can collect more gear/items for only slightly more effort is very appealing and if more people could do it they most likely would, too. It's unfortunate and another reason I look back to the early days with fondness, despite how unforgiving the game was back then.


    Quote Originally Posted by Nyarlko View Post
    When I run people thru zitah t1s, its meant to be a fast n cheap way to give them a leg up to be able to join in on LS events, but I also always advise them to pay attention to what the mobs are doing so they have a clue next time they do the fight w/ someone other than me's. (Also, they are always LS members, so not exactly like I'm going to abandon them like a merc would after getting them some gear.)
    Well, credit where credit is due, it's good to know that you're doing more than just dropping gear/vorseals in their laps.


    Quote Originally Posted by Nyarlko View Post
    ]The only downside that I can agree to is the extra subscription fee. The enjoyment and benefits I get from running a 2nd account on my backup laptop tho is most definitely worth it to me. ^^
    Out of curiosity, if given the choice, would you consider sticking to one account if you could fill its role in your parties with a new/existing LS member at all times or are the benefits too great to give up the second account?
    (0)

  4. #24
    Player Nyarlko's Avatar
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    Nyarlko
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    Asura
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    BST Lv 99
    Quote Originally Posted by Diavolo View Post
    Right, that's been my point all along - the choice to play multiple characters instead of having people fill those roles often comes down to greed, the fact that we can collect more gear/items for only slightly more effort is very appealing and if more people could do it they most likely would, too. It's unfortunate and another reason I look back to the early days with fondness, despite how unforgiving the game was back then.
    Greed was admittedly a major reason for why I started dualboxing. I should note that if I was not dualboxing now, then I would be soloing the same content anyway, so no harm done to anyone. At this point though, I keep doing it because it's actually fun in addition to being profitable. Also, you shouldn't think of it as "replacing a player" so much as "replacing a trust". In group situations where using both my accounts would exclude another player, I will happily leave one idling in Mog House. (Usually my main these days as well since she has majority of content cleared already.) If it's solo/lowman content, it harms no one for me to bring both if that means that success is more likely for the group as a whole.

    Quote Originally Posted by Diavolo View Post
    Out of curiosity, if given the choice, would you consider sticking to one account if you could fill its role in your parties with a new/existing LS member at all times or are the benefits too great to give up the second account?
    Nope. My second account is already geared better than a lot of BLM/GEO players and knowing that I'll never miss a SC+MB timing window alone is more than enough to make it worthwhile to play both for stuff like Gaes Fete, farming crafting mats, etc. The benefits of dualboxing are too great to give up without a good reason to do so, especially since the vast majority of the time, dualboxing isn't going to mean that someone else gets benched. The only time I am going to be reluctant to replace my dbox w/ another player would be if that player would actually be dead weight due to gear, lack of JP which causes a lack of key spells/abilities, or fight mechanics being anti-melee and they refuse to level any other jobs in order to be useful to groups AND it's something that the group can't carry someone else thru easily.

    I'll jump at the chance to help someone who has put in effort already and found that they need help to complete something. I'm not quite altruistic enough to happily enable someone else just being lazy and/or a non-contributor towards group success. ^^;;
    (3)
    Last edited by Nyarlko; 09-12-2016 at 12:10 PM.

  5. #25
    Player Seish's Avatar
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    Aug 2011
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    Character
    Seishiro
    World
    Carbuncle
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    MNK Lv 99
    Here's a simple response:

    Windower is third party and the only way to multibox is to use Windower. The question here is should SE issue banhammer for those using third party tools? They can run a check to prevent cheating at the startup, it would thin the people out enough to bring the servers together. However, that would reduce the population a ton, which IMO would do more harm.

    In short, SE is seeing the end of days unless they do some shit to bring this game to life. Content isn't what is needed. It's a campaign initative to make the game cheaper, more player friendly while being team oriented, as well as bring it back into what made it a Final Fantasy--the adventure. They focused too much on the grinding that people lost what the goal of the game was. I have been playing back in 2003, and I might need to remind you all that the game was very difficult back then. But I made friends that lasted forever. I knew these people and they knew me. The server was one unit, one being. But now that has deminished due to how easy the game is now. People lost the idea of Unity.

    SE needs to bring back the old mechanics or create new ones that forces people to play strategically--not just throwing bodies at the problem. I want to see AOE wipes, I want to see CS Stun, rotating chiblasts, Sams rotating in and out to SC. I miss this play style. Each job had their specific role. We need to revive this. It's not hard to do, and they could do this in so many ways that doesn't affect any current content.
    (0)

  6. #26
    Player Jile's Avatar
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    Mar 2011
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    Character
    Jile
    World
    Phoenix
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    BST Lv 99
    Quote Originally Posted by Seish View Post
    Windower is third party and the only way to multibox is to use Windower.
    This is incorrect. I have three 40 inch tv sets in my bedroom, my wife plays on one pc, I on another and the tv in between us is for our alt account as we had been using xbox initially for that account until migrating it to pc. While using three xbox controllers is indeed inconvenient its 100% doable as I've done far too many times.

    That said, I'm certain that well over half of the population of xi likely use Windower, if SE were to cancel their accounts and their subsequent mule accounts they may as well shut down xi as it's already on its last legs and they cant "afford" another mass ban - even if your reasoning is valid for them to do so.

    If people didn't level jobs from 1-99 in one day, equip their ambuscade gear and think they can play a job perhaps the need for multi accounts wouldn't be there however that is the way people roll in 2016.

    Quote Originally Posted by Seish View Post
    In short, SE is seeing the end of days unless they do some **** to bring this game to life. Content isn't what is needed. It's a campaign initative to make the game cheaper, more player friendly while being team oriented, as well as bring it back into what made it a Final Fantasy--the adventure.
    SE needs to get this game back into stores any way possible with lots and lots of advertisement, a new expansion with new zones and new mobs that are not recycled re-re-repeated mobs and include re-skinned images (bring back orig smn avatars that bogged down PS1 players for example). This game needs NEW BLOOD not just people that miss the game and come back for occasionally visiting for a few months here and there. Expand or die.
    (0)

  7. #27
    Player Diavolo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nyarlko View Post
    The benefits of dualboxing are too great to give up without a good reason to do so, especially since the vast majority of the time, dualboxing isn't going to mean that someone else gets benched. The only time I am going to be reluctant to replace my dbox w/ another player would be if that player would actually be dead weight due to gear, lack of JP which causes a lack of key spells/abilities, or fight mechanics being anti-melee and they refuse to level any other jobs in order to be useful to groups AND it's something that the group can't carry someone else thru easily.

    I'll jump at the chance to help someone who has put in effort already and found that they need help to complete something. I'm not quite altruistic enough to happily enable someone else just being lazy and/or a non-contributor towards group success. ^^;;
    That's more than fair and refreshingly honest.

    I asked - and I didn't mean to single you out, it was more a question for anyone reading - because at this point in the game the divide between the more hardcore/"elite" players and newer, more casual ones is wider than it's ever been and it's wreaking havoc on player retention. The social/casual LS -> mid-tier LS with scheduled events -> HNMLS ladder of the pre-Abyssea days helped people become better players every step of the way. A HNMLS could break 100 members back then with a fairly wide spectrum of skill within it, offering new recruits with an appetite to learn a great opportunity to do so. While that still happens today, everything is on a much smaller scale, including the linkshells, the level of skill between its players and their willingness to recruit.

    It was a lot easier for a player, casual or hardcore, to find a linkshell they could call home in the 75 era if only because there were a lot more options available. The same goes for those simply seeking a little help with the odd quest or item, their options go from slim to none on servers that top out at 300 active players during peak hours. Those of us multiboxing our way through Vagary and collecting Aeonics don't spend a second thinking about it because we're getting by just fine, but those players we're losing could have eventually made it to the end game scene and made all of our lives a little easier if only we were a little more willing to lend a hand.

    It doesn't look like SE is all that interested in keeping this ship sailing for much longer and, that being the case, I firmly believe large scale server merges along with some other quick and easy changes (adding more monsters to old zones, adjusting respawn timers/levels/drops) are the best course of action. An empty server shouldn't be a memory of any Final Fantasy XI player... unless they're reminiscing about the time they were first to log in after a maintenance and claimed Nidhogg.


    Quote Originally Posted by Seish View Post
    In short, SE is seeing the end of days unless they do some shit to bring this game to life. Content isn't what is needed. It's a campaign initative to make the game cheaper, more player friendly while being team oriented, as well as bring it back into what made it a Final Fantasy--the adventure. They focused too much on the grinding that people lost what the goal of the game was. I have been playing back in 2003, and I might need to remind you all that the game was very difficult back then. But I made friends that lasted forever. I knew these people and they knew me. The server was one unit, one being. But now that has deminished due to how easy the game is now. People lost the idea of Unity.
    I like you... except for the whole banning Windower thing. Adding new content is still important, but given the state of the game and SE's apparent unwillingness to keep investing money into it I'd be happy enough if they could just update old content so it reflected the times. I shouldn't have to sit around waiting 15 minute for Aerns to repop in 2016, for example - monster respawn timers shouldn't be longer than 5 minutes anywhere in the game.

    The point you made about adventure is spot on as well and since it seems new art/models aren't a possibility anymore that could be handled via the introduction of higher level monsters in older zones, similar to how they were added to dungeons for Grounds of Valor. Shuffling monsters around, adding "new" ones (same skins, just maybe different sizes, names and levels) and adding sought after drops with low drop rates (plutons, beitetusu, boulders, alexandrite or whatever else to add variety to the way those REM items are farmed) would be a simple way to draw interest back to areas no one ever visits anymore. Vana'diel is massive in size and there's still a lot that can be done even with the skeleton crew left working on it.

    Finally, the whole "make the game cheaper" thing is something that SE really needs to take a look at. The expansions are overpriced on their own, especially the mini expansions at $10 each. I don't expect to see the subscription price drop since they just added $4 for some wardrobe space, but how do you justify three mini expansions costing the same as the entire collection? I would think lowering their individual prices might do more to increase revenue than hurt it at this point.


    Quote Originally Posted by Jile View Post
    SE needs to get this game back into stores any way possible with lots and lots of advertisement, a new expansion with new zones and new mobs that are not recycled re-re-repeated mobs and include re-skinned images (bring back orig smn avatars that bogged down PS1 players for example). This game needs NEW BLOOD not just people that miss the game and come back for occasionally visiting for a few months here and there. Expand or die.
    Careful, you'll anger all those living in paradise on their quiet servers.
    (0)

  8. #28
    Player Nyarlko's Avatar
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    Nyarlko
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    Asura
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    BST Lv 99
    Quote Originally Posted by Seish View Post
    Here's a simple response:

    Windower is third party and the only way to multibox is to use Windower. The question here is should SE issue banhammer for those using third party tools? They can run a check to prevent cheating at the startup, it would thin the people out enough to bring the servers together. However, that would reduce the population a ton, which IMO would do more harm.
    Two laptops. :3 /panic when required to bounce between keyboards during hectic fights. Enjoy the satisfaction of success after said /panicking that I just did something by myself that I could never have done "solo". (This is also one of the reasons I tend to focus on job combos that have one active and one more passive.) It can be done without any sort of anything outside of the client. Please don't equate "multi-boxer" with "cheater".

    Quote Originally Posted by Seish View Post
    SE needs to bring back the old mechanics or create new ones that forces people to play strategically--not just throwing bodies at the problem. I want to see AOE wipes, I want to see CS Stun, rotating chiblasts, Sams rotating in and out to SC. I miss this play style. Each job had their specific role. We need to revive this. It's not hard to do, and they could do this in so many ways that doesn't affect any current content.
    AOE wipes happen regularly, just look at the issues on using melee on higher tier endgame content. That would be one of the big reasons that melee generally seem unwelcome on 140+ fights. The "specific roles" you mentioned were pretty boring tbh. ^^;; It wasn't that engaging to spam Boost for several minutes on the sidelines before doing something to the target. CS Stun didn't exactly take a lot of higher brain functions to spam your stun macro. I think some of the reasons those things have gone away for the most part are changes in the playerbase not wanting to do those things anymore due to efficiency, and current content frequently feeling like a race against gimmicks and/or the clock (which increases the priority level of group efficiency.) I think that it might be possible to bring in more variety of playstyle back into the mix if they at least increased the timer on Gaes Fete fights to 30min for instance. Most fights nowadays are far simpler to try to bruteforce down something ASAP than deal with extended TPmove/AOE spam, adds, or level up mechanics, but there are still some that it could be possible to chip away at w/o any sort of enrage timer looming.
    (1)

  9. #29
    Player Diavolo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nyarlko View Post
    I think that it might be possible to bring in more variety of playstyle back into the mix if they at least increased the timer on Gaes Fete fights to 30min for instance. Most fights nowadays are far simpler to try to bruteforce down something ASAP than deal with extended TPmove/AOE spam, adds, or level up mechanics, but there are still some that it could be possible to chip away at w/o any sort of enrage timer looming.
    This is veering a little off topic, but I'm a big proponent of bringing the focus of MMORPGs back to open world design and Geas Fete isn't quite that, as you touched upon - as soon as you pop that NM everyone/everything outside of your party disappears and they can't do anything to help/hurt you or even engage the NM should your party wipe. Aggro, links, AoE, out of party heals... it's all stuff that added a little extra spice/strategy to fights. The game has become too sterile, where player interaction is practically frowned upon outside of towns. It's part of why the genre has been in decline, too much time is spent worrying about how to make the game easier for the casual/mainstream market and not enough spent worrying about how to make the world more interesting. Give the players the tools and let them choose whether they want to use them for good or evil. Breaking the Terms of Service is one thing, but choosing to watch a party wipe or, conversely, raising/healing/joining them is a completely different story and one that helps build character, the kind of character building we don't see much of anymore these days because of the way the game has changed.

    I think the 15-30 min timers currently in place are fair, but I would love to see them go back to open world fights where the NMs begin to rage when their timers expire and should you wipe, anyone happening to be around would be free to claim before it depops.
    (2)

  10. #30
    Player Nyarlko's Avatar
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    Nov 2015
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    Nyarlko
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    Asura
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    BST Lv 99
    Quote Originally Posted by Diavolo View Post
    Aggro, links, AoE, out of party heals... it's all stuff that added a little extra spice/strategy to fights.
    ............
    I think the 15-30 min timers currently in place are fair, but I would love to see them go back to open world fights where the NMs begin to rage when their timers expire and should you wipe, anyone happening to be around would be free to claim before it depops.
    All of those things were potential risks with little reward. I have absolutely no desire to go back to the days of curebomb claim-stealing, MPKing, and HNM camping for days on end (only to watch a bot get the claim before it even spawns.) ^^;;

    I believe that all Geas Fete timers are 15min, which I think should be increased to 30min to allow for turtling or wipe/reset/recover, at least for T2+ since pops tend to be expensive or difficult to acquire. This would allow for learning and experimentation with group compositions, which would be a good thing IMO. I may be a dualboxer, but would be overjoyed if removing some of the roadblocks would allow for more players to learn the content, even if that means leaving one of my accounts at home to make room for one more.
    (1)
    Last edited by Nyarlko; 09-21-2016 at 04:10 AM.

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