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  1. #221
    Player Zaila's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2016
    Posts
    5
    Character
    Zaila
    World
    Leviathan
    Main Class
    BLM Lv 99
    The double-dipping (cash shop on top of sub fee) is one of the big reasons I left FFXIV and came back to XI.

    Now XI is double-dipping as well, only a few months after I came back. It's a bitter taste.

    I see a lot of arguments in this thread about why double-dipping is "okay" - the content is optional and it's not pay to win, and no one is being forced to pay extra, so what's the problem?

    The problem is that people who are already paying for the game every month feel like it's a slap in the face. We are already paying, but not getting all the content the devs are implementing. Worse, the time the devs spend on creating and implementing cash shop items is likely time taken away from the development of regular content that all subscribers have access to.

    Charging more for storage in a game like FFXI is extra-hard to swallow. The game was designed to allow players to play every job on one character. While the one-character model has always been lauded as a brilliant move in an MMO environment, allowing players to preserve their community identities while simultaneously trying many different jobs, it of course leads to huge inventory issues. Many of those issues have been alleviated through quality of life upgrades, and I'm sure the playerbase as a whole is as thankful as I am for that. However, it does tend to be a punch in the gut when the devs, who know the strengths and weaknesses of the one-character system as well as the players do, charge a premium for expansion of storage.

    For a long time MMOs fell into one of two categories: free to play with a cash shop, or a monthly subscription fee with all content available to every player who pays for the game monthly. And it worked, players had their preferences and followed them. But as things like this usually go, someone in corporate looked at these models and thought "if the players will pay for both, why not use both?" I understand SE needs their money, but XI players have already been giving and giving and giving, for 15 years now. And I know I'm not the only one who left XIV disappointed to come back to XI where the grass was greener, the game more fun, the double-dipping nonexistent. Until now.
    (10)

  2. #222
    Player Spectreman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Posts
    223
    Character
    Neferflash
    World
    Asura
    Main Class
    THF Lv 99
    The problem with microtransactions is that companies adjust the game with time so players feel the need for purchasing them more and more. Game mechanics are bascially screwed towards these microtransactions and finally we reach a point of not having them means having a crippled gaming experience (like in all F2P games). Since this is a subscription game, microtransactions should never have a place here.
    (4)

  3. 07-09-2016 11:01 AM

  4. #223
    Player Finuve's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    282
    Character
    Finuve
    World
    Lakshmi
    Main Class
    DRK Lv 99
    Quote Originally Posted by Zaila View Post
    I see a lot of arguments in this thread about why double-dipping is "okay" - the content is optional and it's not pay to win, and no one is being forced to pay extra, so what's the problem?
    its never ok, but dont worry, plenty of people will justify anything companies do
    (7)

  5. #224
    Player Zaila's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2016
    Posts
    5
    Character
    Zaila
    World
    Leviathan
    Main Class
    BLM Lv 99
    Quote Originally Posted by Stompa View Post
    To explain this clearly, one last time. Say for example that you are a FFXI player, and you wanted to have extra storage during the last 14 years, you PAID EXTRA for some Mule Characters, and you shipped your extra items to the Mule accounts (very slowly) via Delivery Box. People have been doing this for over a decade. I was doing it in 2004 when I was catching Grimmonites and couldn't sell them all. I had a Mule with a whole house full of fish!

    So if you were a player who needed extra storage, you were ALREADY paying for extra characters and using them as Storage Mules.

    Now, with the extra wardrobes optional fee, you would be able to cancel those Mule Characters, and use the same money (from your cancelled Mules) to pay for the extra Wardrobes. This would make your life EASIER, and cost you the SAME as you were already paying. That is what we in the business world call a "good deal." Pay the same, get the same storage, and not have to ship goods back and forwards across multiple characters? Sounds like a good deal to me.

    Not a good deal. On one mule, you could have an extra 800 slots for an extra dollar a month (if you bothered to do the legwork on the mule to open all those slots) and you could store any type of item on a mule. However, Mog Wardrobe 3 & 4 are only 160 extra spaces in which you can only store gear and not any other type of item, and it costs 4$ a month. And let's face it, if you are so badly in need of two extra Mog wardrobes, it means you likely play enough to spend the time to do the legwork on those mules.

    I spent many a day wrestling with mules too. I know it's annoying and time-consuming. And therein lies the rub. We were always fed the "PS2 limitations" line every time we requested more much-needed storage, so we made do with mules. But the time for that has passed, and XI is now PC-only. The yoke of outdated hardware has been lifted, only to be replaced with a new yoke. Now that the extra space can be supported, we who have been paying for mules and extra accounts all these years are being asked for even more money per month for the space.

    If you truly think this is a fair business move, or that you're getting the same bang for your buck, you might want to cast Blindna on yourself.
    (9)

  6. #225
    Player Olor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    2,134
    I am paying for the wardrobes I put all my bst gear in them and lower level gear for leveling. That way I only have to sub to them when I want to level or play bst. My bst has been pretty much retired now for 6+ months so this is just a way of freeing up inventory from my retired job without tedious muling and without throwing away gear I worked hard for.

    I don't like being asked to pay for them, but with my limited play time, managing inventory isn't really what I want to do.

    Anyway the login campaigns are so bad I can probably make the money mostly back on not subbing mules.

    I don't like this direction as I think the game is pretty overpriced for it's age and updates, but I am not going to suffer when I do play. As I said above, I will probably just sub less often.
    (1)
    http://photobucket.com/gallery/http://s19.photobucket.com/user/soulchld4/media/Olorinus-Signature.jpg.html

  7. #226
    Player Stompa's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Remora
    Posts
    633
    Character
    Nebula
    World
    Leviathan
    Main Class
    WHM Lv 99
    Quote Originally Posted by Zaila View Post
    Not a good deal. On one mule, you could have an extra 800 slots for an extra dollar a month (if you bothered to do the legwork on the mule to open all those slots) and you could store any type of item on a mule. However, Mog Wardrobe 3 & 4 are only 160 extra spaces in which you can only store gear and not any other type of item, and it costs 4$ a month. And let's face it, if you are so badly in need of two extra Mog wardrobes, it means you likely play enough to spend the time to do the legwork on those mules.

    I spent many a day wrestling with mules too. I know it's annoying and time-consuming. And therein lies the rub. We were always fed the "PS2 limitations" line every time we requested more much-needed storage, so we made do with mules. But the time for that has passed, and XI is now PC-only. The yoke of outdated hardware has been lifted, only to be replaced with a new yoke. Now that the extra space can be supported, we who have been paying for mules and extra accounts all these years are being asked for even more money per month for the space.

    If you truly think this is a fair business move, or that you're getting the same bang for your buck, you might want to cast Blindna on yourself.

    You say the new wardrobes are only 160 spaces. Did you read this on the POL page ;

    "This contract applies to all characters on the same PlayOnline/FINAL FANTASY XI service account."

    This means that as I have six mules, I cancel four mules to pay for the new wardrobes, and I get 160 spaces on each of my remaining three characters. I could leave things on my mules that I never really need to use very often, and have +160 more items on my main account, items that are more useful every day.

    You're right, dollar for dollar, there is a slightly larger number of slots if I kept my six mules, than if I got +160 slots on each of my three remaining characters. But it is only a slight difference.

    To use your argument, for dollar-for-dollar you get a slightly larger number of slots with six fully-powered mules, than with three characters using the new Wardrobes - but at a huge loss of convenience.


    (1)
    Last edited by Stompa; 07-15-2016 at 06:16 PM. Reason: Brevity.

  8. #227
    Player Olor's Avatar
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    Mar 2011
    Posts
    2,134
    yeah but stompa, my mules don't need gear spaces. I'd much rather have a lower price and only have it apply to one character. If this was general inventory I'd agree with you but how many people have multiple mules that need 160 more gear spaces on them each? I don't, and I even have a mule that is pretty much gear only, and he had room in his existing mog sacks...
    (2)
    http://photobucket.com/gallery/http://s19.photobucket.com/user/soulchld4/media/Olorinus-Signature.jpg.html

  9. #228
    Player Vashkoda's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    58
    Character
    Vashkoda
    World
    Bismarck
    Main Class
    THF Lv 99
    I think Stompa made a good point that maybe when you own 4 mules that otherwise barely hold anything (used for logins, bonanza, whatever), condensing those 4x$1 expenses to one $4 expense that grants you 160 extra equip-macro-available spots might be worthwhile. But you still should consider a few things:

    Pro1) You gain 160 spots that can be used in equipset macros, saving yourself a little time and space stuffing macro gear into your inventory each time you change jobs
    Pro2) You gain a bonus 160 storage spots on any mules you have left.

    Con 1) The 160 storage spots you gain on those mules is for gear only.
    Con 2) You now lose out on having 4 other chars for login points, mog pell gifts, bonanza, etc.
    Con 3) You lose out on the total storage space of 4 mules (which depending on how many storage you unlocked, adds up to a much larger number than 160)

    This is without including other cons, such as concern that purchasing this will encourage SE to start charging for other services in FFXI, or that acceeding to this is essentially subjecting yourself to being slapped in the face when you are already one of the few loyal customers SE has left who is playing their outdated game.

    Quote Originally Posted by Elexia View Post
    I'm curious to see how many people with all 99 jobs actually plays more than 2-4 to the max, because people should be far more concerned with SE not adding 180 general inventory slots compared 180 gear only slots very few people would even get use out of because they're severely hurting for inventory space, which as I said again, if you truly do play all jobs to 99, SE didn't help you at all even for $4 extra a month because you still won't have space, anywhere to sustain that (if you actually gear swap.)
    I actually do play all 22 jobs, and have them all geared to a degree that I can take them out and do decently on mid-tier stuff. Sure I have some jobs that are geared much better than others for endgame (RUN, BLU, THF, WHM, SMN, BST, BLM, GEO), but for example, I still carry 4 different H2H for PUP, and it's a job I play maybe once every 3 months. I admit I'm a hoarder, and to manage it I need one mule (which I didn't have for the longest time because I wanted to play as vanilla as possible), porter slips, filling the dbox limbo space between my main and my mule (which I cap all the time), and often filling my ah slots with gear I overprice just to have a place to hold them. I don't keep any gear needed to play those 22 jobs on my mule (mostly because that gear is predominantly ra/ex or on porter). My mule already gets all my sentimental gear that I'll never wear again but just can't toss, my extra escha/resein pieces that I'll one day mess around augmenting, gear for the mule itself because I got bored and decided to level all its jobs. And yet with all that, I have maybe 12 pieces of gear that don't fit into its wardrobe 1/2. The rest is all crafting mats, trigger items, abjurations, unity trophies, food and meds. So yes, giving my mule an extra 120 gear spaces will help get me inv +12 and nothing more. A second mule would be much more useful to me (and I'm probably close to breaking down and buying one, but I'm waiting to see how I fare after the bonanza frees up space).

    Quote Originally Posted by Olor View Post
    yeah but stompa, my mules don't need gear spaces. I'd much rather have a lower price and only have it apply to one character. If this was general inventory I'd agree with you but how many people have multiple mules that need 160 more gear spaces on them each? I don't, and I even have a mule that is pretty much gear only, and he had room in his existing mog sacks...
    Exactly.
    (1)

  10. #229
    Player Jerbob's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Posts
    251
    Character
    Jeral
    World
    Phoenix
    Main Class
    WHM Lv 99
    Urgh. Do I really have to skip past these wardrobe buttons every time I access my inventories?

    SE, I'm not going to opt in to this ridiculous nonsense. You don't need to advertise its existence. Please remove the buttons for people who aren't participating in this. At least grey them out or have the cursor skip over them.
    (10)

  11. #230
    Player Vinedrai's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Posts
    76
    Character
    Vinedrius
    World
    Bahamut
    Main Class
    BLU Lv 99
    Quote Originally Posted by Jerbob View Post
    Urgh. Do I really have to skip past these wardrobe buttons every time I access my inventories?

    SE, I'm not going to opt in to this ridiculous nonsense. You don't need to advertise its existence. Please remove the buttons for people who aren't participating in this. At least grey them out or have the cursor skip over them.
    +over9000

    That annoys me too.
    (9)

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