Game/Job balance suggestions

[Selindrile]

Which enfeeble spam is way out of hand? On the NMs I've fought on THF or BLU, its really a matter of my WHM getting rid of the ailment in a timely manner. Its part of the game. Yeah being slowed sucks. Being paralyzed sucks. Being poisoned and bio'd sucks. Having a great WHM that knows what he is doing fixes all of these things.

Yakshi - Doomga, Strophadia - Amnesia, Ironside - Dispelga/Amnesiaga/Terrorga/Gearlock, Mauve-Wristed Gomberry - Splitting, melees can't aoe as well, Golden Kist - Everything, Dazzling Dolores - Charm, Amnesia, Virava - Charmga Spam, Wrathhare - Whirl Claws with added effect death spam, Aglaophotis - Amnesia, Harpeia - Several super annoying spams, Vidala - Uses Perfect Dodge... There are more, I haven't even started with the actual hard ones yet.

Urmom has a good point though, I said something similar earlier, if these moves were done far less frequently, this would be less of an issue.

The problem is mostly the enfeebles that the Whm can't remove, namely amnesia/charm/terror/stun, or the massive dispels that take the mob 1 second to use, but require 8-9 recasts from your mages while doing your other jobs, also many of the melee buffs simply can't be put back up, if it dispels your berserk, or your Mighty Guard or the like, you just have to wait, because you can't put it back up for a while.

Most of this list is easy, because we outgear it, but the point is it's WAY harder to do with melees than mages even if most you can complete with melee, the problem is the discrepancy, if SE continues to make mobs that spam disables that make melees inefficient, we'll keep doing everything with mages, that's all.

[Rooj]

These status ailment complaints are one reason I love playing RDM, and also why I recently started full-timing the new tathlum. I mean I have to know the fight beforehand, but I use my barelement and barstatus spells religiously (using Barblizzard helps resist Paralyze, plus Barparalyze, plus Tathlum). And then I make fun of my party for being debuffed while I'm still DPSing away. Ammo stats aren't really that great in the first place, and your ammo hardly matters if you're paralyzed or slowed, etc anyway.

I will say that by far, my greatest bane in this game is mass dispel. Now that makes me cry emo tears of blood.

[Rooj]

Vidala - Uses Perfect Dodge...

There are WSes that go through PD. I'm not sure but I'd imagine pretty much everyone has one at this point, IDK. Melee should be using their TP gain JAs/temps during this time. Also as RDM when something uses PD/Invincible, Poison II is still ticking, Enspells still hurt on Invincible, and it's also the perfect time to throw out some extra debuffs/nukes.

[Zeldar]

Clerics drink removes a lot of this junk. I know you only have 1 in Gaes Feat, but maybe they could add a system similar to VW where certain temps are replenished. The proc system is already there, just not as prevalent as in VW. Maybe they could add temp item replenishment to GF as well, and tie the ones you get to the vorseals you have earned. Not a perfect "fix" but we don't want this stuff too easy, do we?

As a side note, try everyone grouping up directly behind Dazzling Dolores except the tank. It works wonders. Some of the others you mentioned just make it necessary to at the very least have a hybrid party setup, such as Vidala. It doesn't PD the whole fight. As with mobs in the past that use PD, you just need to nuke it while PD is up...same with any mob that uses invincible. Its a mechanic of the game.

[Selindrile]

Again, to repeat myself, there are answers many of these issues (not all), and a lot of it is very completable, reguardless, as I said, it's mostly quite easy to complete, the point is, all of these mechanics make melees far worse than mages at the end of the day, you're providing solutions to these problems, while we long ago found the better solution, circumvent them by not using melee and completing the content faster (due to not having to deal with these issues) and easier.

At the end of the day this is the conversation we keep having.

People who want change: It's harder to do content on melees than mages because of these issues.

People who don't want change: There are workarounds to some of these issues.

But at it's heart, you still have to put forth the effort to make these workarounds happen, and be less efficient and slower than mages for having to take the time to do these things, rather than just doing it on mages, which is the entire point.

[Zeldar]

Working around these things is a part of a melee's job, just as working around removing them from you is a WHMs job. Avoiding them is a mages job. There are mechanics on mobs that make mages useless as well. MANY mobs in this game are magic resistant. For a while, a pimped out BLM couldn't get into ANY type of content due to magic resistance. RDM was made nearly useless for a while because of this as well, and many people haven't figured out yet that RDM is useful again. I'm just saying that every job has its hurdles. Changing the game isn't always the best solution...learning to overcome them on your own sometimes is. Perhaps if the mob is using too many TP moves, your whm needs to learn the effects of auspice, your thf needs to learn to use conspirator, your DDs need more subtle blow, and you need a rdm or geo to slow the mob down a bit and make it less accurate. Some mechanics to help with your problems are already there: the question is, are you willing to use them?

[Ataraxia]

Greetings,

While briefly mentioned during the AMA the other day, and also outlined in the August version update announcement, we’ll be making several adjustments to make it easier for melee to function in battle.

• Adjustments to defense from VIT
  We’ll be increasing the amount of defense players gain depending on their VIT.
  
  
• Adjustments to monster evasion
  We’ll be lowering the evasion values for high-level monsters. The higher the monster’s level, the more we will be reducing their evasion.
  
  
• Adjustments to damage from AoE abilities
  When a monster utilizes a magic-based AoE ability, we will be reducing the damage incurred by players other than the main target. As this is tied to overall battle balancing, we’ll first be implementing this adjustment for the monsters that appear in Legion and Ambuscade, and we’d like everyone to try it out and let us know your feedback.
  

wow finally this is probably the best news i heard coming from Camate and Akihiko Matsui. I hope your adjustment include High tier mission battle like AA, Avatar and others. I hope you can run a test on all content if a Warrior, Mnk, Drg or Dark Knight can win in difficult or Very Difficult mode.

High tier mission battle at difficult level are a lot tougher than fighting a NM in Reisenjima Tier 1 level 129. For example, we get one shot astral flow from avatar in difficult and our trust die but fighting Bugard NM in Reisenjima seems much easier. I hope the adjustment is good enough so people can enjoy doing high tier mission and unity cord NM. =)

[Rooj]

Playing a job because it makes content easier instead of playing a job that I love is something that I have never and will never do. And I find it depressing that people play that way. Also now that I think about it, I've never had a mage in the party during Vidala lol.

I would rather not complete content than play a different job. Period.

[Selindrile]

Working around these things is a part of a melee's job, just as working around removing them from you is a WHMs job. Avoiding them is a mages job.

Many of these things do have workarounds, some reasonable, some not, but you're missing the entire point, at some point (and we passed this long ago on most of these mobs) the workaround is so sub-optimal that using another job that doesn't need to use this workaround is the far better option.

There are mechanics on mobs that make mages useless as well. MANY mobs in this game are magic resistant. For a while, a pimped out BLM couldn't get into ANY type of content due to magic resistance.

Yep! And guess what, we made a change, now they're usable on any content! \^^/

Perhaps if the mob is using too many TP moves, your whm needs to learn the effects of auspice, your thf needs to learn to use conspirator, your DDs need more subtle blow, and you need a rdm or geo to slow the mob down a bit and make it less accurate. Some mechanics to help with your problems are already there: the question is, are you willing to use them?

This statement, more than anything highlights the hilarious disconnect, even if everyone uses 50 subtle blow (which is cap, auspice included) I highly doubt that would decrease WS frequency at all, in a melee setup NMs usually have 3k TP before they finish their current WS, they gain so much TP by being hit, that even halfing it, and removing 100% of their TP gain from melee. (Though I doubt you could make most real endgame mobs inaccurate even with all the -accuracy/+evasion you could manage, which even if you could floor them at 20% would make very little difference in their overall tp gain.)

Simply put, the speed at which melee attack with their 80% delay reduction makes player TP gain very fast, nearly instantaneously, and the rate at which a player feeds tp is a very similar rate, so the moment you have two melees, even if they both used 50% subtle blow (which would notably hurt your DPS), the NM gains TP just as fast if not faster, and their WS are far more devastating, and if you as a player are using a multihit ws, you pretty much instantly feed him a ton of TP anyway.

[Rooj]

Also I wanted to add to a discussion that happened much earlier in the thread, about NMs being immune to debuffs.

Several years ago around the Voidwatch era they decided to make ALL new content debuffable, with zero immunities. If you adjust your chat log, it will tell you when you cast a spell if something is completely immune to it or if it only resisted (it's my understanding that complete immunities only exist in pre-ilvl content). It will also tell you if an Immunobreak occurs, something I never see people talk about and something that people really need to learn about. Just the other day, a few of us were farming Taelmoth the Diremaw. Once he gets to around 50% he starts spamming Azure Lore and 1 shotting people (I imagine the normal strategy here is to kite), except this never happened because I had him Silenced every time.

It's truly a blessing being able to Silence mobs that cast terrible things like Breakga, Paralyga, Slowga, Dispelga... etc. I can't wait till I get more MACC. Making MACC cape @ next Ambu