Game/Job balance suggestions

[Rooj]

I recently returned after many years, and am still playing catch up, but I'm hoping the T3+ Escha NMs are a lot harder than the T2. I see people always going for these extremely specific boring as heck party comps (TANK WHM GEO MAGE MAGE MAGE ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ). And then my LS goes and does Ruaun T2s and Bakunawa with 0 healers or tanks. Please tell me it gets harder. I mean I'm sure anything higher will require more traditional party setups, but I feel like all the end-game content I've done so far (Apex, Ambuscade, Vagary, Incursion, Delve, Skirmish, T2 Escha NMs) has been pretty simple and does not AT ALL require the insanely definitive setups that people are willing to spend HOURS shouting for. Like people will only take the EXACT 6 jobs they want and will absolutely not compromise whatsoever. Then when I finally do the content myself, all I can think to myself is "rofl". SMH. I haven't dabbled in SR, Hard Mode Story Battles, or T3+ Escha NMs, but I'm willing to gamble once I do I'll still be shaking my head.

I've been denied many a party for various content because of my job (I only and will only ever play RDM). It's never justified. I get denied Vagary groups because I'm not a WHM - but when I do get in, I heal the WHMs group members before they even can. I get denied Apex as melee, yet I get 1K TP in 5 seconds just like every other melee. My mage gear is terrible, but my highest MB is 55K. I can land debuffs like nobody's business. I mean hell, have you fought a silenced Gestalt? It's hilarious watching people deal with Dread Spikes while I'm over here like, "What Dread Spikes?"

RDM is so bad guys. Plz buff.

[Hyrist]

@ RDM comment: I giggled, Bikini. Ever you want to Duo stuff and I'm around, I'm game. Though, you outgear me. Let those Apex parties look for a Geo for four hours while we murderface raptors or something.

Switching gears to jobs like Monk, and Samurai. From the notes that we've been given so far, SE seems to be bent on giving them a way for their standard hits to be more worthwhile.

To be honest, the only thing I can think of is a sort of Martial trait at higher level that adds a modifier to their normal attack hit. If they focus that on HtH and 2h specifically, and have it be high enough, this will allow them to do more damage during their TP phase and allow them to have lower overall skillchains.

So, instead of doing 13k WSes, they're doing 5 hits for 5k total damage above the norm (5 hit setup) then WSing for 8k. This would also solidify the opener/closer dichotomy which would work for more healthy skillchain groupings.

It won't change the situation where you can't really fit more than 3 people skillchaining max, but it will make more variant groups welcome.

[Urthdigger]

Now, it's a different game. I don't know what monk can or cannot tank these days because I never see anyone good on it because the job is in a bad spot.

I'd be interested in that as well. I've been a big fan of MNK since I started, and I like countering things, but there's no denying it's in a bad spot at the moment. Looking at the JP gifts however, it's clear that SE wants it to be a tank: Outside of a MA trait increase, literally all job specific gifts are bonuses to counter and guard. That said, my own attempts at soloing stuff with trusts has been less than stellar, and it definitely seems that it's squishier than other options, especially against spellcasters.

[Zeldar]

They cant add new spells, as they've said a few times.

[Rooj]

@ RDM comment: I giggled, Bikini. Ever you want to Duo stuff and I'm around, I'm game. Though, you outgear me. Let those Apex parties look for a Geo for four hours while we murderface raptors or something.

I got Master last night Would've happened a lot sooner if people weren't so weird. And GEOs knew that they have to tag mobs for their debuffs to work (it's... disturbing how many don't know this, yet everyone wants to throw GEOs at everything.. perfect example of how people want to be recognized (AND ARE) for their job and not their ability to play said job).

I've filled many different roles in Apex parties. There is a wide array of gear and ability levels among the people you'll meet in Apex. In one party there was a guy doing 25K Leaden Salute with 60K Darkness (WHICH IS WHY I LAUGH AT THE GUY ASKING FOR COR TO BE BUFFED. NO. JUST NO.) so the mob was already half dead each time and thus only really needed 1 BLM nuke to die. In the majority of my parties, all that was really needed nuking was 2 BLMs. In very few parties did we ever need all 4 nukers nuking.

When meleeing, we pull so fast that I don't even use Frazzle. There's no time. The tank should have pulled a mob before the last one even died, so that it becomes autotargeted and the SC immediately begins. And the moment the 2nd WS hits, the mob dies. And you've autotargeted the next mob.

Very rarely have I ever seen a "healer" needed. Sometimes the SCH will keep Accession Regen 5 up, and sometimes the SCH will cast 0 cures or regens because reasons. Most of the melee I've partied with don't take a whole lot of damage. Sometimes though I definitely have to work to keep people alive.

My favorite things to do in Apex:
MB Aspir for up to 700.
Dispel Bubble Curtain before nukes hit.
Be a RDM that can fill any role.

[OmnysValefor]

I don't and never have played Corsair (too much specific gear), but it may 'need' (for the sake of balance) some buffs to its primary role of buffing.

What a job can do in apex parties is not the metric we tend to measure by, otherwise every job except SMN (pre-this update) is fine. I could heal most apex parties on GEO, doesn't make geo a healer. Doing apex just the way you describe (flashing the next mob) is/was? a bit faster than BPs could keep up with.

That's just an example. SMN was of course fine on content where the metric isn't "how fast can you be ready to participate in a skillchain?"

[OmnysValefor]

I'd be interested in that as well. I've been a big fan of MNK since I started, and I like countering things, but there's no denying it's in a bad spot at the moment. Looking at the JP gifts however, it's clear that SE wants it to be a tank: Outside of a MA trait increase, literally all job specific gifts are bonuses to counter and guard. That said, my own attempts at soloing stuff with trusts has been less than stellar, and it definitely seems that it's squishier than other options, especially against spellcasters.

Yes, and the Martial Arts+ is actually bad for the job.

Thank you though, I did mean to bring that up: Monk would have probably been even tankier at 75 if guard wasn't so difficult to cap back then. I capped parry for PLD and NIN and still gave up on guard. Now though, what defines a tank is different and defense does have an impact, as well as a plethora of DT gear but it's hard to maintain good defensive and offensive stats simultaneously, which a dd-tank needs.

[Rydal]

They cant add new spells, as they've said a few times.

They can't add new graphics. Most of the spells he listed are already in-game (Regenaga spells are just aoe normal spells similar to Accession/Regen 5). Whether you agree with the list or not is a different story.

As for RDM's place in an Apex party, I've done many different things in Apex parties: nuker, buffer/healer, debuffer. In my last grind in Apex, I was in a COR PLD RDM GEO SCH (insert DD here) party. I was there just to do Inundation as the skillchain the COR produced usually hit 99999 with Inundation. The SCH was actually leeching when we got our rhythm down, to my annoyance. Don't sleep on that spell.

I don't know if COR needs buffs in the buffing department. COR enjoys many unique buffs that stack well with all other buffs (Pet buffs for example). Maybe if they had a Gift that gave them an extra roll (550?). I think COR is in a good spot.

Also, I know you were just using an example, but SMN works perfectly fine in an Apex party if they are just backup damage (aka your party is moving through mobs faster than 30sec and SMN being a main SC/MB job would slow them down). If you Rage>Ward>Rage>Ward in 15 second intervals, you can provide support and damage fairly well (Hastega 2, all stats+, MAtk/MDef+, STP Bonus, etc).

[Rooj]

I don't and never have played Corsair (too much specific gear), but it may 'need' (for the sake of balance) some buffs to its primary role of buffing.

What a job can do in apex parties is not the metric we tend to measure by, otherwise every job except SMN (pre-this update) is fine. I could heal most apex parties on GEO, doesn't make geo a healer. Doing apex just the way you describe (flashing the next mob) is/was? a bit faster than BPs could keep up with.

That's just an example. SMN was of course fine on content where the metric isn't "how fast can you be ready to participate in a skillchain?"

Oddly, my first 2 Apex parties each had a SMN (MBing with Shiva) and it was fine (again like I said, you typically only need 2 people to MB to kill the mob) - though I haven't had a SMN in my party since. SMN seems way more awesome than it used to be, throwing out neat buffs like group TP Bonus.

COR doesn't need anything. I'm sort of under the impression that you never actually play with the jobs that you bash on. I'm going to assume it's your graveyard of a server that you need to leave, that is causing the problem. These tiny servers are full of antisocial players with cliques and LSes that would rather NOT EVEN DO CONTENT than play with "pugs" or people they don't know. You probably play with the same people each time who play the same jobs on the same content. When you move to Asura, like you should, you actually see a wider variety of classes in content (it's still an issue, but NOTHING like I was used to on my old server) when you join groups for stuff. It's great, moving to Asura was one of the best decisions I've ever made on this game. People are still prejudice anywhere you go, it's just a lot more common on small servers. I feel sorry for you, honestly. I love pugging stuff and meeting people, sometimes running into the same players, it's how friendships and linkshells are formed and grow. Your method of playing the game is incredibly boring to me and I believe it is ruining the game for you (I mean you've basically already said that yourself anyway).

[Helldemon]

If you are getting oneshotted on melee in -50% dt gear you shouldn't be messing with that content, you aren't ready for it. I seriously don't see how that is remotely possible to be oneshotted in -50 dt gear.

Ilvl 119 Unity NM wearing good 119 gear is something people aren't ready for?