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Thread: New Head/Frame

  1. #11
    Player Siviard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Urmom View Post
    It would probably have a crazy AI that would double up on a 9 without snake eye but not double up on a 7 because it "likes to take risks"
    But 7 is a lucky number tho!
    (0)

  2. #12
    Player Ilian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sicycre View Post
    Hello everyone!

    While we definitely understand the desire to see new head and frame options for automatons,
    this would require entirely new designs and graphics which are currently difficult to implement into the game, so unfortunately, this is something that we can't do at the moment...
    I have to say, this is just completely untrue. The dev team adds new monsters and abilities to these monsters every month (i.e. Ambuscade). Some like the troll, with a mechanic which took time for players to get an idea how it even worked. No different than making one which is available to players.
    There are key elements from this job which are missing mentioned in various threads from Curagas, to an AoE hate ability, update to automaton magic (dmg/updated available spells/etc.), spell interruption, GEO and BRD buff benefits. Many of these would allow Puppetmaster to showcase its versatility as intended the moment frames and heads other than other than Valoredge were confirmed.

    8 WHM Trusts in which the UC trusts can cast Auspice, Esuna and....Curaga (even given to a melee trust)
    16 BLM Trusts in which some cast '-ga' spells (even with the notion to magic burst the proper spell...better than automaton AI..as does Iroha II and KoH).
    10 Tank Trusts in which 6 have Sentinel, 2 with AoE weapon skills, another with Rampart and...should I even bring up the number of /450 Cumulative/900 Volatile Enmity abilities Amchuchu has?
    I can think of 9 melee trusts which have AoE and/or conal weapon skills.

    Everything the PUP community is asking for is already in the game. We're not asking for a game changing ultimate weapon here. This community rep response just doesn't add up given what's already implemented. Even if the development took place over the course of a few month to decide which abilities to add and attachments to put them on, it's hardly a challenge to the dev team.
    (0)
    Last edited by Ilian; 03-20-2017 at 06:43 AM.

  3. #13
    Player Nyarlko's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ilian View Post
    I have to say, this is just completely untrue. The dev team adds new monsters and abilities to these monsters every month (i.e. Ambuscade). Some like the troll, with a mechanic which took time for players to get an idea how it even worked. No different than making one which is available to players.
    There are key elements from this job which are missing mentioned in various threads from Curagas, to an AoE hate ability, update to automaton magic (dmg/updated available spells/etc.), spell interruption, GEO and BRD buff benefits. Many of these would allow Puppetmaster to showcase its versatility as intended the moment frames and heads other than other than Valoredge were confirmed.

    8 WHM Trusts in which the UC trusts can cast Auspice, Esuna and....Curaga (even given to a melee trust)
    16 BLM Trusts in which some cast '-ga' spells (even with the notion to magic burst the proper spell...better than automaton AI..as does Iroha II and KoH).
    10 Tank Trusts in which 6 have Sentinel, 2 with AoE weapon skills, another with Rampart and...should I even bring up the number of /450 Cumulative/900 Volatile Enmity abilities Amchuchu has?
    I can think of 9 melee trusts which have AoE and/or conal weapon skills.

    Everything the PUP community is asking for is already in the game. We're not asking for a game changing ultimate weapon here. This community rep response just doesn't add up given what's already implemented. Even if the development took place over the course of a few month to decide which abilities to add and attachments to put them on, it's hardly a challenge to the dev team.
    None of the Ambuscade mobs or rewards have original graphics, which new heads/frames would require. That is the primary reasoning in Sicycre's post behind not implementing. Ability/spell choice, intended role, and how the associated AI attached interacts with all other available parts would probably not be simple to design and involve a rather large amount of work, but are only secondary issues to the graphical one.

    Since the dev team has already said that they lack sufficient PS2 devkits required to continue adding significant numbers of new graphical assets, I'd say the response is on point and has nothing to do with your complaint points.

    All of that said, how many PUPs would complain about getting new heads/frames if they reused the currently existing graphical models? If the communities here started calling for "New head/frame, old graphics are OK," then it's possible that the dev team could consider doing so since it would only involve new AI coding. Most of the complaints/requests that I've seen about automatons could probably be covered by new attachments as well, which would require no new graphical assets, so that could also be possibly feasible for the dev team to consider.

    Note: One hell of a necrobump there. XD
    (0)
    “That is not dead which can eternal lie, And with strange aeons even death may die.”

  4. #14
    Player Ilian's Avatar
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    To me, it's a new dat, an update to attachments and some testing. That doesn't sound like too much a hassle if the development is spread throughout months of prep. I'm more focused on the range of abilities than a new automaton in general as you see above. So ultimately, my post is more about the blatant doge from the idea of working on something which has been desired for years though they 'understand'(?). I'm not one to believe it would be difficult to implement new abilities on automatons as the dev team already has experience with these spells and abilities on alter egos.

    Years ago they also didn't have the ability to put multiple stats onto weapons/equipment. Today, gear comes with multiple stat types and even a second page on many. Here..."can't" is an oxymoron.
    (0)

  5. #15
    Player Nyarlko's Avatar
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    We're not talking about only adding a few numbers to assign new spells/abilities, there would be new graphical assets required for new heads/frames which is the primary reasoning behind not implementing. This is the overarching stance that the dev team has taken. It's not just PUP that isn't getting new stuff, it's everyone and everything. ><;; Since RoV was completed and the current dev team took over, how many graphical assets have been added to the game? All that I can think of would be the 3x cosmetic weapons from the Master Trials. They've already explained before how there is a dire shortage of devkits remaining alive at this point and that adding new assets is not something that can be easily done anymore.

    Since all that we can expect are reskins / palette swaps of existing models, would you be OK with a recolored model for new parts? Would you complain that they don't look different enough? How about the PUP community in general? Does anyone have any objections to recoloring existing models in order to get your hands on new heads/frames? Genuinely asking since I would like to know. ^^;;
    If there was a concerted effort from the community to make it clear to the devs that reskins/swaps of existing models would be acceptable, then it might have a chance of actually happening. What they understand is that we want something they can't give us. And "can't" is quite applicable here since they "can not" work outside of the limitations of the PS2 framework.
    (0)
    “That is not dead which can eternal lie, And with strange aeons even death may die.”

  6. #16
    Player Selindrile's Avatar
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    There are many, many, community created models, animations, and skins that were created without the use of the PS2 devkits that work just fine when swapped into the game, I'm no expert, but is it not possible for the dev team to use similar alternative tools now that console compatibility is no longer an issue?
    (0)

  7. #17
    Player Jakuk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Selindrile View Post
    There are many, many, community created models, animations, and skins that were created without the use of the PS2 devkits that work just fine when swapped into the game, I'm no expert, but is it not possible for the dev team to use similar alternative tools now that console compatibility is no longer an issue?
    It's more whether it's worth the time and money to do so.
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  8. #18
    Player Selindrile's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jakuk View Post
    It's more whether it's worth the time and money to do so.
    That's not what they're saying though. >.>, if it's in part due to the idea that they'd have to create new tools, I'm saying they're already out there, if it's the actual manpower of creating the models/animations, well perhaps that's something that can be discussed with the community about what they'd rather have with the limited dev time we have available. Either way, I think we should have an honest discussion about it.

    Also, I'm absolutely SURE the community would be happy to submit user-created models, animations, and skins, which would save dev time and they could simply handle the side of things they're already handling now, that's how a few games create content, Trove comes to mind.
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  9. #19
    Player Jakuk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Selindrile View Post
    That's not what they're saying though. >.>, if it's in part due to the idea that they'd have to create new tools, I'm saying they're already out there, if it's the actual manpower of creating the models/animations, well perhaps that's something that can be discussed with the community about what they'd rather have with the limited dev time we have available. Either way, I think we should have an honest discussion about it.

    Also, I'm absolutely SURE the community would be happy to submit user-created models, animations, and skins, which would save dev time and they could simply handle the side of things they're already handling now, that's how a few games create content, Trove comes to mind.
    They're a business, they can't just use community submitted creations, or tools. It'd open them up to lawsuits.
    (0)

  10. #20
    Player xiozen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Selindrile View Post
    That's not what they're saying though. >.>, if it's in part due to the idea that they'd have to create new tools, I'm saying they're already out there, if it's the actual manpower of creating the models/animations, well perhaps that's something that can be discussed with the community about what they'd rather have with the limited dev time we have available. Either way, I think we should have an honest discussion about it.
    I think this portion of the response is spot-on. I agree 100%. My original post, which was responded to by Sicycre [much appreciated], addressed the issue about not adding "new head/frame options for the automatons" as it relates to " new designs"...my point is really providing the PUP job with a "new" (new meaning concept associated with job type) based on support in the same vein as a bard or geomancer...

    If we consider the fact that the assets used for a bard or geomancer in accordance with their functions are pre-existing, adding the requested modification to PUP (an adjustable automaton with access to these assets) would be an enhancement to an already customizable job... The automaton can perform the functions of "BLM", "WHM", "RDM", "PLD", "RNG", "WAR"...has access to "blink" similar to shadows of NIN... etc. all through various attachments.

    The answer to this Sicycre is not a new head/frame combination as originally requested (existing head/frame can be used..heck, gives a new use for possible harlequin usage...) but "new" attachments that USE EXISTING ASSETS for Bard or Geomancer to provide support.

    Please consider it.
    (1)

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