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  1. #21
    Player Secondplanet's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    San D'Oria
    Posts
    398
    Character
    Mortificator
    World
    Asura
    Main Class
    SMN Lv 99
    Quote Originally Posted by Ulth View Post
    Yep, reading through the updates that include SMN. Stuff like increasing ranges, adding Apogee, lowering the recast of Apogee, adding new blood pacts, buffing old blood pacts, adding T2 skillchain properties to things like Flaming Crush, I don't see how you guys manage with such meager buffs to your job.
    Again your lack of knowledge of the job just shines on through brighter then the goddess Altana herself. Increasing our range was needed as every AoE would one shot us and our range was far shorter then most mages when it came to it. Apogee was given to us just as everyone else got new abilities for their jobs but ours is a double edged sword, yes we can do 2 bloodpacts back to back but the first will cost double the mp cost which is great for short fights but long term the cost was too high. The new bloodpacts most were junk as shiva's Crystal Blessing gives +250tp on weaponskills... so like what 1 hit for a DD? as for the BP rages they were needed as when level cap was being raised from 75-99 some avatars didn't get new bloodpacts and most are cost too much mp for such a lacking attack. Buffing old bloodpacts??? LMFAO i would love to see that, like said many times most of our wards are still stuck in the days of 75 which would only take them raising the cap to fix and most our rage BP's aren't worth using as they do such minimal damage they are not worth our timers. As for Skillchain properties i'm not sure when that was done but weaponskills had two properties so there was no need for avatars to be left with one, it was done to bring avatars to a similar level as other jobs.
    (0)

  2. #22
    Player Ulth's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Posts
    578
    Character
    Andrewviii
    World
    Valefor
    Main Class
    THF Lv 99
    Quote Originally Posted by Secondplanet View Post
    Again your lack of knowledge of the job just shines on through brighter then the goddess Altana herself. Increasing our range was needed as every AoE would one shot us and our range was far shorter then most mages when it came to it. Apogee was given to us just as everyone else got new abilities for their jobs but ours is a double edged sword, yes we can do 2 bloodpacts back to back but the first will cost double the mp cost which is great for short fights but long term the cost was too high. The new bloodpacts most were junk as shiva's Crystal Blessing gives +250tp on weaponskills... so like what 1 hit for a DD? as for the BP rages they were needed as when level cap was being raised from 75-99 some avatars didn't get new bloodpacts and most are cost too much mp for such a lacking attack. Buffing old bloodpacts??? LMFAO i would love to see that, like said many times most of our wards are still stuck in the days of 75 which would only take them raising the cap to fix and most our rage BP's aren't worth using as they do such minimal damage they are not worth our timers. As for Skillchain properties i'm not sure when that was done but weaponskills had two properties so there was no need for avatars to be left with one, it was done to bring avatars to a similar level as other jobs.
    Apogee is a +50% increase in mp cost not a +100%. I just thought it was funny that after you say I don't know anything about the job you make a blunder like that.

    Anyway listening to you complain about new spells and abilities would be like if a blue mage said something along the lines of "Yeah, I like Mighty Guard but I never use Cruel Joke..."
    (0)

  3. #23
    Player Secondplanet's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    San D'Oria
    Posts
    398
    Character
    Mortificator
    World
    Asura
    Main Class
    SMN Lv 99
    Quote Originally Posted by Ulth View Post
    Anyway listening to you complain about new spells and abilities would be like if a blue mage said something along the lines of "Yeah, I like Mighty Guard but I never use Cruel Joke..."
    I find it beyond amusing that you are criticizing me for a opinion that many summoners share and then you come out with something like this....

    Quote Originally Posted by Ulth View Post
    Anyway if I was going to fix war this is what I would do. Let's ignore fencer, basically it lets war do one hand if they choose to. Focus on abilities of war that works for both 2 hand and 1 hand wars, as well as things that would make it more desirable in a party. First I would switch the duration and recast of Warcry, Blood Rage, and Tomahawk, that way not only could they be full timed but if they get dispelled some how it's not the end of the world, you just get a little job ability delay. I would also change the merits for warcry from lowering the recast to increasing the amount of attack it gives. With full merits I think the new potency of warcry should be somewhere in the 50-60% increase in attack similar to a geo fury. As for Tomahawk instead of increasing the duration of the debuff it should increase the potency of by 5% with every merit past the first so that works out as 45%, and 50% if you use the relic legs.
    So you say that we're asking for a lot from the developers while you want WAR to become a broken OP job..... that is rich and after seeing the double standards you have I am done with trying to talk about this game in a serious manner with you.
    (1)

  4. #24
    The more I read this, the more I start siding with Ulth. You guys are acting like Summoner is on the bottom of the pit.

    Don't get me wrong, I completely agree that a lot of our abillities need a buff, and that this update has left a lot of us terribly confused.
    But looking at where Summoner stands it is not doing bad at all.
    Summoners are still invited to high end endgame content to play several roles, Summoners are still invited to join CP parties, Summoners can solo stuff other jobs can't even beat with a full party of trusts.
    And don't get me started about our 1 hours, especially if you add the effects Job Points have on them, pretty much among the most powerful in the game.

    Just look at Ulth's thief, where does he fit in? What content actually still uses thieves?
    Seriously folks, stop acting like little children, even with the improvements we'd so love to see more than half of the jobs out there have it worse than us, a lot worse.
    (0)
    Last edited by Shirai; 05-12-2016 at 09:36 PM.

  5. #25
    Player Secondplanet's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    San D'Oria
    Posts
    398
    Character
    Mortificator
    World
    Asura
    Main Class
    SMN Lv 99
    Quote Originally Posted by Shirai View Post
    Summoners can solo stuff other jobs can't even beat with a full party of trusts.

    I would love to see your setup to pull this off, Just thinking you're using a fastcast set for summoning and maybe subbing nin for shadows or get lucky with blink to allow you time to summoner still, A tanking set so your avatar doesn't get one shotted by a skill attack from the NM but how do you get mp back since this fight would be drawn out? Sorry to pick on this but without trusts and most NM's now having a battlefield zone which takes kiting out of the picture you would have to rely on killing it fast with maybe you 1hr's but that would still bank on your avatar staying alive long enough to finish your attack storm.
    (1)
    Last edited by Secondplanet; 05-12-2016 at 11:28 PM.

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Secondplanet View Post
    I would love to see your setup to pull this off, Just thinking you're using a fastcast set for summoning and maybe subbing nin for shadows or get lucky with blink to allow you time to summoner still, A tanking set so your avatar doesn't get one shotted by a skill attack from the NM but how do you get mp back since this fight would be drawn out? Sorry to pick on this but without trusts and most NM's now having a battlefield zone which takes kiting out of the picture you would have to rely on killing it fast with maybe you 1hr's but that would still bank on your avatar staying alive long enough to finish your attack storm.
    Fast cast, check. But that's something I've been using for so long that I actually judge the people that don't as it's a very clear indicator they they'll most likely also slack in other departments.
    Other then that, nothing special, no nin sub, pet -DT or anything fancy like that. Just good old knowledge of terrain, the type of mob(s) and good old game mechanics that have worked since before I started playing this game.

    Note that, barring devastating TP moves, when wearing ilevel gear we can also easilly survive a couple of hits ourselves.

    Also note that I never said, anywhere, that we're able to solo everything. But we can still solo considerably more than most of the other jobs.
    (0)
    Last edited by Shirai; 05-13-2016 at 12:50 AM.

  7. #27
    Player dmuller30's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2016
    Posts
    100
    Character
    Kalitzo
    World
    Odin
    Main Class
    SMN Lv 99
    Quote Originally Posted by Shirai View Post
    Fast cast, check. But that's something I've been using for so long that I actually judge the people that don't as it's a very clear indicator they they'll most likely also slack in other departments.
    Other then that, nothing special, no nin sub, pet -DT or anything fancy like that. Just good old knowledge of terrain, the type of mob(s) and good old game mechanics that have worked since before I started playing this game.

    Note that, barring devastating TP moves, when wearing ilevel gear we can also easilly survive a couple of hits ourselves.

    Also note that I never said, anywhere, that we're able to solo everything. But we can still solo considerably more than most of the other jobs.
    We can solo a lot of mobs that don't need trust but for the ones that matter you need the trusts which isn't technically soloing. And it is alright to side with whoever you want there is always going to be clashing opinions you are very optimistic just like I used to be about SMN but beating the job with stuff that is lack luster is just making a lot of SMNs a little unsettled, tired and while some are still optimistic the majority are a bit irritated. I don't know how many SMN I asked about this on my server because I am also upset about the update have said they couldn't believe they would update something so minimal. So me and Secondplanet are not the only people upset it's a lot of people. So my opinion just like many still stands, I am very dissapointed about this update and I feel as if they could do more. They have been saying they are going to up our blood wards for so many years that also hasn't happened so yes I am upset and confused and for me I believe it is valid.
    (0)

  8. #28
    Player dmuller30's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2016
    Posts
    100
    Character
    Kalitzo
    World
    Odin
    Main Class
    SMN Lv 99
    Quote Originally Posted by Ulth View Post
    Yep, reading through the updates that include SMN. Stuff like increasing ranges, adding Apogee, lowering the recast of Apogee, adding new blood pacts, buffing old blood pacts, adding T2 skillchain properties to things like Flaming Crush, I don't see how you guys manage with such meager buffs to your job.

    Seriously, SMN was the only job with any adjustment this update. If this was like a huge update where lots of jobs were getting buffs I could understand why getting something small would be insulting, but that is not the case. It was a small update that was little more than them changing the rewards and fights for this month's Ambuscade. Here is the thing. They really can't do a lot for the game in a months time. That's the reasoning behind Ambuscade. It's small and easy to update each month. It is supposed to keep people busy and entertained while they do work on new things. So just enjoy the mini updates while they work on the real updates that will probably happen every 2 to 3 months time.
    And although those updates are nice instead of adding Apogee they should just lowered the BP timer to match current content (Spamming solo sc) or just keep apogee while still lower our BP timer. Range was an issue from day one since it is a mage job, also the blood wards range was a serious issue that was complained about for years. The skill chains are a nice addition but seriously every job can solo skill chain themselves with the proper gear we have to wait every 10 min (don't remember apogee recast). And yes we can solo SC if you utilize melee with SMN but Escha mobs (and most other end game bosses) are unforgiving and really only allow for a few jobs that won't die at close combat. Which is primarily but not limited to BLU/BST. So even for a mini update they could have done so much more and address the other small issues that could be implemented for SMN instead they upgraded a skill that isn't really even used by end game SMN with decent or better gear because other options are way more efficient. And besides those few updates you mentioned those were many years after receiving such horrible upgrades. So not just me but many may be a little skeptical on SE's so called "Big updates" for augmenting SMN because a ton of those big updates for SMN were just as disappointing as this to many people.
    (0)

  9. #29
    Player Ulth's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Posts
    578
    Character
    Andrewviii
    World
    Valefor
    Main Class
    THF Lv 99
    Quote Originally Posted by dmuller30 View Post
    And although those updates are nice instead of adding Apogee they should just lowered the BP timer to match current content (Spamming solo sc) or just keep apogee while still lower our BP timer. Range was an issue from day one since it is a mage job, also the blood wards range was a serious issue that was complained about for years. The skill chains are a nice addition but seriously every job can solo skill chain themselves with the proper gear we have to wait every 10 min (don't remember apogee recast). And yes we can solo SC if you utilize melee with SMN but Escha mobs (and most other end game bosses) are unforgiving and really only allow for a few jobs that won't die at close combat. Which is primarily but not limited to BLU/BST. So even for a mini update they could have done so much more and address the other small issues that could be implemented for SMN instead they upgraded a skill that isn't really even used by end game SMN with decent or better gear because other options are way more efficient. And besides those few updates you mentioned those were many years after receiving such horrible upgrades. So not just me but many may be a little skeptical on SE's so called "Big updates" for augmenting SMN because a ton of those big updates for SMN were just as disappointing as this to many people.
    It's 3 minutes. It was 5 but then they shortened it to 3. You weren't even close. Seriously how do you people justify being distraught over a job you can't even remember how one of your 3 job abilities work and can't be bothered to look it up. Every job has had its ups and downs through their entirety of the game. Just because you personally feel that your job has had more downs then up doesn't mean you are owed anything from the dev team. Get over it.

    This is ridiculous it's like when in the Harry Potter books Dudley got mad because he got 36 presents instead of 37.
    (1)

  10. #30
    Player dmuller30's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2016
    Posts
    100
    Character
    Kalitzo
    World
    Odin
    Main Class
    SMN Lv 99
    Quote Originally Posted by Ulth View Post
    It's 3 minutes. It was 5 but then they shortened it to 3. You weren't even close. Seriously how do you people justify being distraught over a job you can't even remember how one of your 3 job abilities work and can't be bothered to look it up. Every job has had its ups and downs through their entirety of the game. Just because you personally feel that your job has had more downs then up doesn't mean you are owed anything from the dev team. Get over it.

    This is ridiculous it's like when in the Harry Potter books Dudley got mad because he got 36 presents instead of 37.
    Well you are entitled to your opinion just like I am entitled to mine not knowing a timer doesn't make me any less or more of a player. And it doesn't matter about quantity it matters about quality. I would rather take 3 quality updates rather then 30 lack luster updates. And judging by your current post from my other post about job balance you want the same thing for another job so we aren't so different. No one owes anyone anything but everyone has the right to feel that the update is meaningless you are 1 out of the few that doesn't care. So if you don't care then this isn't the thread for you my friend it is for the people who are dissapointed and aren't satisfied with the update(s).
    (1)

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