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  1. #61
    Player Secondplanet's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    San D'Oria
    Posts
    398
    Character
    Mortificator
    World
    Asura
    Main Class
    SMN Lv 99
    Quote Originally Posted by Camate View Post
    After this change takes place, Apogee would only reset the cool down timer for Blood Pact: Ward and Blood Pact: Rage. In other words, this is a complete redesign of the ability, and it would not be at all like it is at the moment.

    So, to answer your question: yes, you will be able to use consequent Ward and Rage abilities by executing each, and then using Apogee. Furthermore we are planning to eliminate the increased MP cost as well.

    Let us know your feedback!
    I think after our wards get an overhaul this could help smn's get a place in parties again. I won't complain about this upgrade to that ability.
    (1)

  2. #62
    Player Fae's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2015
    Posts
    76
    Character
    Flupplewolfe
    World
    Bahamut
    Main Class
    SCH Lv 99
    Thank you for clarifying Camate and sorry for any troubles my reply may have caused I really appreciate you and the other community teams work. The increased mp cost was also noticeable when you double up on huge cost pacts so that's great too.
    (1)

  3. #63
    Player Rydal's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2015
    Posts
    112
    Character
    Rydal
    World
    Ragnarok
    Main Class
    RDM Lv 99
    So in the scenario where, assuming we have capped Blood Pact recast and Blood Pact recast 2 making our recast 30 secs: we have Garuda out, we use Blood Pact: Rage Predator Claws then Blood Pact: Ward Hastega, the recast timer on both is 30 secs. Now we use (new) Apogee, our recast timers are reset to 0 and we can use both again immediately and the recast will be 30 secs again or will it be whatever it would be for the first use?

    Basically will the new Apogee give us free Blood Pact uses regardless of the recast timer (not resetting or interacting with the timer at all) or will it just reset the current timer to zero? I ask for clarification because the first change is more powerful than the second because it will essentially give us the ability to self-skillchain AND Magic Burst AND buff/heal in rapid succession effectively using ONLY our Avatars, at least while Apogee is usable (every 2-5mins I presume).

    Another example to illustrate this:

    30 second recast on Blood Pacts (both recasts capped)

    Fenrir uses Ecliptic Growl (Ward) (Timer starts from 30)
    Fenrir uses Crescent Fang (Rage) (Timer starts from 30)
    Summoner uses Apogee (Both Blood Pacts are available again- recast timers are not tampered with)
    Fenrir uses Moonlit Charge (Rage) (Timer continues from would be from the first use so let's say 15)
    Skillchain Compression!
    Fenrir uses Impact (Rage) (Timer starts from 30)
    Magic Burst!

    Not sure if you can actually self skillchain with a 15 second window but if you can, this will open up a lot for Summoners. They will be in same group as SCH or BLU to be able to self-skillchain for a limited time through the use of Job Abilities, which is a great boost SMN desperately needs. It would allow us to use up to 3 rages and/or wards in the span of 30 seconds per Apogee use, which is very similar to BST's Ready charges (they can already successfully self skillchain/magic burst with only their pets). With this new Apogee, we no longer have to choose between participating in the skillchain or Magic Bursting because now we can do both (every few minutes). If this is how Apogee will work, please let the recast timer be 5 minutes or less (preferably 2 minutes like Chain/Burst Affinity).
    (0)
    Last edited by Rydal; 05-28-2016 at 01:07 AM.

  4. #64
    Player Kensagaku's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    652
    Character
    Zeich
    World
    Asura
    Main Class
    BST Lv 99
    The way it sounds is that it actually just resets the counters. So if you go and use Hastega II -> Predator Claws, then using Apogee will simply reset both BP cooldowns from their current timer to 0. It won't preserve the previous one, it will simply reset the timers. It still has more potency then current Apogee, especially if the MP cost boost is removed, because you can now get in four pacts in a very short period whenever Apogee is up as opposed to three, with no additional cost if their plans go through.
    (1)
    [Kensagaku - formerly of Kujata] - http://www.ffxiah.com/player/Valefor/Kensagaku

  5. #65
    Player dmuller30's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2016
    Posts
    103
    Character
    Kalitzo
    World
    Asura
    Main Class
    SMN Lv 99
    Quote Originally Posted by Kensagaku View Post
    The way it sounds is that it actually just resets the counters. So if you go and use Hastega II -> Predator Claws, then using Apogee will simply reset both BP cooldowns from their current timer to 0. It won't preserve the previous one, it will simply reset the timers. It still has more potency then current Apogee, especially if the MP cost boost is removed, because you can now get in four pacts in a very short period whenever Apogee is up as opposed to three, with no additional cost if their plans go through.
    Well the simple explanation is for example would be. Predator Claws > Apogee <Resets timer> >Predator claws > Predator claws so you could BP 3 times, it wouldn't be limited to Predator claws though lol.
    (0)

  6. #66
    Player Zeargi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Currently: Windurst
    Posts
    743
    Quote Originally Posted by dmuller30 View Post
    Well the simple explanation is for example would be. Predator Claws > Apogee <Resets timer> >Predator claws > Predator claws so you could BP 3 times, it wouldn't be limited to Predator claws though lol.
    I don't think that's how it's gonna work. I feel that it's going to reset the timer once for each ability. So if you use it while the Ward time is still at 0, it'll do nothing for it.
    (0)
    "What is a man? A miserable little pile of secrets. But enough talk... Have at you!" Lord Dracula - [Castlevania:SotN]

  7. #67
    Community Rep Camate's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    1,712
    After further discussions and testing within the development team, they have decided that they will not be making the aforementioned changes to Apogee. I apologize to those of you who were looking forward to this change. With that said though, they do feel that improvements to the usability of Blood Pacts are necessary, and they are currently in the midst of exploring other ways to address this. Once the plans have come together, I will make a follow-up.
    (5)
    Devin "Camate" Casadey - Community Team

  8. #68
    Player xiozen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    San'doria
    Posts
    301
    Character
    Xiozan
    World
    Asura
    Main Class
    PUP Lv 99
    Quote Originally Posted by Camate View Post
    After further discussions and testing within the development team, they have decided that they will not be making the aforementioned changes to Apogee. I apologize to those of you who were looking forward to this change. With that said though, they do feel that improvements to the usability of Blood Pacts are necessary, and they are currently in the midst of exploring other ways to address this. Once the plans have come together, I will make a follow-up.
    Awww as sad as the announcement is for those summoners who were so looking forward to this; thank you for letting us know.
    (1)

    {DISCLAIMER} Posts may contain opinions based on personal experiences that are not meant to be taken as facts. What may appear as fact with no source reference may be recollection of information with no source, and may be subject to scrutiny without source reference. Any debate may be considered conjecture of all parties in that debate. Player comments may not be the expressed position/consent of SE, their affiliates, or any employees of said organizations.

  9. #69
    Player Secondplanet's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    San D'Oria
    Posts
    398
    Character
    Mortificator
    World
    Asura
    Main Class
    SMN Lv 99
    Quote Originally Posted by Camate View Post
    After further discussions and testing within the development team, they have decided that they will not be making the aforementioned changes to Apogee. I apologize to those of you who were looking forward to this change. With that said though, they do feel that improvements to the usability of Blood Pacts are necessary, and they are currently in the midst of exploring other ways to address this. Once the plans have come together, I will make a follow-up.
    Sad to hear about apogee but glad to hear that bloodpacts are finally gonna get a review ^^ i wouldn't mind a new set of physical/magical BP's for our avatars since other jobs have gotten new weapon skills to match a new level of combat skills.
    (0)

  10. #70
    Player Cabalabob's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    321
    Character
    Cabalabob
    World
    Phoenix
    Main Class
    SMN Lv 99
    Glad to see SMN getting some attention, really hoping our BP wards will get a buff. It's a shame about apogee I was coming around to the idea of this change after forgetting to use apogee before a BP a couple times >_>
    (1)

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