Changing Skillchains

[cengeal]

So I brought this up in another thread, but I believe it's worth its own thread.

The fact that SCH can self SC reliably and out of harm's way in rapid succession is, for the lack of a better word, stupid. No job can match this efficiency, seeing how SCH's SC's can't really miss. The closest thing is RNG or an astoundingly well geared SAM using Yoichi (which would suffer from huge accuracy problems). Even then, they can't compare in consistency.

The first proposition I made is most likely to be the less popular one, but I modified it even more. Any Skillchain that uses an Immanence inflicted "weapon skill" suffers from a magic burst damage penalty. 25% for each use of an Immanence induced WS. That means if a SCH self SC's, the burst damage is reduced by 50%. I think this is fair because this strategy would still be potentially viable, but lose its practicality. This also endorses the "safer, but slower" aspect of the strategy.

The second proposition is to adjust the amount of damage a magic burst can do proportionate to what the skillchain did. For example, let's say a SCH lands distortion for 1,000 points of damage. Let's say a nuke can do at most 500% of what the Skillchain did. This is barring any resists or magic evasion. This way the mages can only get off small amounts of damage from Magic Bursts from a SCH Skillchain, but could potentially get even better burst damage than they're getting right now from doing a magic burst from a skillchain created by a DRG and DRK. This would also encourage players to make more multi step skillchains.

Each tier spell would need to have it's own formula and such to prevent ridiculous things like a 99k burst from stone. I won't bother making any, as there is pretty much zero chance the dev team would adopt those exact values if they chose to make this change. What's important from proposition 2 is that the actual damage from the skillchain becomes relevant again. Using SCH's for SC's would no longer be ideal, but would still be viable.

As stated in the post where this began, a safe strategy should not be an ideal strategy. I'm also fully prepared for people to hate me for this.

[OmnysValefor]

Worth mentioning as well is that the hate produced by a scholar is a mere fraction of what a ranger produces. After a single-target hate reset, a single Provoke or Flash is enough to get the boss back on me from the mages. Rarely both might be needed.

If I'm hit with a hate reset and lose to a ranger, it takes significant effort to get the boss back on me.

Apex crabs are a great example of this. Killing crabs, while I was still regaining gear for PLD, most crabs only got a single flash (to pull it as the current target was dying). This flash, unless it had decayed too much, usually held the crab til it was dead, from mages doing 50k, 70k, 99k MBs. Let a DRK do a 50k ws after a flash/voke and enjoy the funeral.

Safer strategy by far.

I had once considered that maybe Immanence shouldn't be able to open a skillchain but only close it (or vise versa), but even that is just too much if the tank can reliably WS. You also can't make immanence trigger a longer cooldown because then people will just make sure to bring two scholars and have them SC together, as many groups do already.

[Cabalabob]

Or just straight up remove the skillchain mechanic from immanence and change it to be just a magic burst damage bonus on your next spell, it's stupid to have a job using MAGIC to make a SKILLchain. It's just too powerful and really diminishes the whole point of the skillchain/magic burst dynamic.

Not gonna lie, I play SCH and I have SCH friends and we use this strat because it's just the easiest way to deal damage. We all make fun of my friend who comes thf and just sits there missing over and over while we're bursting 30k+ and he feels so useless.

[Urmom]

The second proposition is to adjust the amount of damage a magic burst can do proportionate to what the skillchain did. For example, let's say a SCH lands distortion for 1,000 points of damage. Let's say a nuke can do at most 500% of what the Skillchain did. This is barring any resists or magic evasion. This way the mages can only get off small amounts of damage from Magic Bursts from a SCH Skillchain, but could potentially get even better burst damage than they're getting right now from doing a magic burst from a skillchain created by a DRG and DRK. This would also encourage players to make more multi step skillchains.

I like some of this but one problem it has is in this very scenario skillchaining would actually make your nukes do less dmg which is kind of a nonbo. It also only really effects those pushing to those caps so lesser bursters or the guy burst 2nd/3rd who already get dmg reductions wouldn't be effected.

Instead how about make the bonus proportional/tiered based on the skillchains dmg. Like say very ballpark numbers base dmg increase for bursting is 10%. Then you get another 2% for each 1k dmg the skillchain did etc. So bursting will always increase the dmg... but how much it does varies greatly with skillchain dmg to the point where little ones do very little while the upper end does a lot.

[Urmom]

Worth mentioning as well is that the hate produced by a scholar is a mere fraction of what a ranger produces. After a single-target hate reset, a single Provoke or Flash is enough to get the boss back on me from the mages. Rarely both might be needed.

If I'm hit with a hate reset and lose to a ranger, it takes significant effort to get the boss back on me.

While it wont work for all jobs if you are having trouble with hate and rng you can switch to magical ws. Since almost all their hate is ws limiting the ws hate is huge. And magical ws hate is a very odd thing in that it doesn't count most the dmg when doing the enmity calcs. So like doing a 3k tp trueflight with idk 300 agi will give the hate equivalent to do 2.8k dmg regardless of how much you actually did... and yeah I've done 50k trueflights where the mob didn't even glance at me. And of course their is wildfire for even less hate

[OmnysValefor]

I'm not having trouble with hate. Since melee are never present at endgame, practically, I never really test myself on a single-target hate reset vs melee/rangers, but I have against mages. It's no problem at all to get things back from mages after a hate-reset.

The only hate reset I've experienced lately with a physical damage person was Ultima/Omega HTBF's Pile Pitch (throat stab), and yeah, it can take a minute to get it back on me but that's the purpose of single-target hate resets, it's supposed to take effort to recover.

[CrAZYVIC]

Lol even if the BLU,COR and BLMS will cry for this

We the Melee jobs, have massive problems to Hit End game mobs. We have to use Sushi, put accuracy, DEX, work a lot just to be able of Hit.

Mele Magical Weapon Skill. Your Melee Accuracy/Attack will have impact if you get resisted 1/2-1/4. Mele Acu/Attack will have impact on your SC damage, 1/2-1/4 resisted Rates. Sorry you can't do Cloudspitter 20k with Spark Gear this is the damage a Ragnarok ILV119 III DRK do with Godly Gear.

On Ranged Magical Weapon Skills Ranged Accuracy/Ranged Attack will impact if you get resisted 1/2 and 1/4. Attack/Acccuracy Impact directly our damage in Resolution, Upheaval and Stardriver.... RA Attack/RA Accuracy will impact if your Skill Chain get resisted 1/2 or 1/4.

Increase the Elemental Magic Skill and Magic Accuracy necessary to do not get resisted 1/2 and 1/4 only.. Yes Little Taru BLM you need SUFFER what a DRK, WAR, DRG and SAM are suffering just to "Hit" the enemy. Oh you want play BLM? You need gear that good not anymore Sparks gear and be auto God mode. Same as Above Your elemental magic Skill and Magic ACCURACY will affect your magic burst/ Skill Chain damage 1/2-1/4.

Increase the Accuracy/Magical Accuracy at same Level Melee Jobs Need. So you wanna play Corsair ok not problem u will need Lots of Ranged Attack - Ranged Accuracy like a Ranger to perfom good. Do you wanna use Cloudspitter ok you gear at level of Sulevia to make that strong, you wanna play BLM/SCH? Yeah you need More elemental magic skill and Magical Accuracy.

Now the classes are more close each other and its necessary fix the weapon Skill and calculate correctly the accuracy.