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  1. #41
    Player Songen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2016
    Location
    Windurst
    Posts
    327
    Character
    Horu
    World
    Odin
    Main Class
    MNK Lv 99
    considering smn can spam BP's that deal 30-60k (Without MB), 99,999 with MB with geo every 20seconds. add on their wards enhance alot with more summoning skill along with their timers. the magic evasion reduction today makes all jobs that needs to land spells INCLUDING summoner enfeeble magic more viable while also enhancing their base dmg with the mobs lowered combat/magic skill along with this update.
    The BP tp nerf they did 2-4 months ago is slightly lowered with this update which makes them actually near not nerfed. if anything that nerf before was intended specificly for this update (Highly unlikely but possible).

    There are SMALL things smn needs right now, its those things that need to be discussed here, however its nothing really in comparison to what brd needed, this update was to bring brd inline with all the other jobs that could step up for endgame and high level content .

    If your summoner isn't dealing those dmg amounts or better while also high levels of enhancing magic, and as of now, better enfeeble magic, then your gear sucks or your failing to macro your summoner correctly
    (0)

  2. #42
    Player Secondplanet's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    San D'Oria
    Posts
    398
    Character
    Mortificator
    World
    Asura
    Main Class
    SMN Lv 99
    Quote Originally Posted by Songen View Post
    considering smn can spam BP's that deal 30-60k (Without MB), 99,999 with MB with geo every 20seconds. add on their wards enhance alot with more summoning skill along with their timers. the magic evasion reduction today makes all jobs that needs to land spells INCLUDING summoner enfeeble magic more viable while also enhancing their base dmg with the mobs lowered combat/magic skill along with this update.
    The BP tp nerf they did 2-4 months ago is slightly lowered with this update which makes them actually near not nerfed. if anything that nerf before was intended specificly for this update (Highly unlikely but possible).

    There are SMALL things smn needs right now, its those things that need to be discussed here, however its nothing really in comparison to what brd needed, this update was to bring brd inline with all the other jobs that could step up for endgame and high level content .

    If your summoner isn't dealing those dmg amounts or better while also high levels of enhancing magic, and as of now, better enfeeble magic, then your gear sucks or your failing to macro your summoner correctly
    Not saying BRD didn't need this update but when you think about many of summoners wards they are not even worth the mp, with things like Titans stone skin and Diablos's phalanx still having low numbers despite the massive increase to summoning magic skill and player level these should get an update. As for the BP rage tp comment i made it was more directed at the avatars lower tier attacks, just because they're lower level blood pacts that cost less shouldn't mean they can't do decent damage. Still stuck having to use the high cost attacks to deal damage. Either that or give avatars another set of magic attacks as our main decent ones are still our merit ones.
    (0)

  3. #43
    Player Songen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2016
    Location
    Windurst
    Posts
    327
    Character
    Horu
    World
    Odin
    Main Class
    MNK Lv 99
    so allow BP wards to scale depending on the ward type such as nocshield etc, that is something worth adjusting
    And as for t1 BPs spells, they should scale with mp cost much like black mages scale too lower teir will ALWAYS deal less damage (While blm does get a body piece that converts dmg to mp, its only shines on MBs, other wise its minimal in comparison), BP gear does take its damage up a fair notch so shouldn't be complaining why you can't save mp using low teir BPs while fighting WoC, higher damage requires higher mp simple fact (T6 black mage nuke costs well over 400 mp as a example, thats 1/3rd-4th of their mp in one hit). The same goes for physical BPs, lower teirs should be dealing less dmg than higher teirs, even after they adjusted normal WSs to deal more damage, lower teirs attained higher damage but still retained lower damage than higher tier. hell, even tho beastmasters can reduces their timers to 15secs, their damage is severly limited by removing 2 slots for attack/acc gear for recast gear (Which causes the level penalty to increase), and the master MUST be in close range of pet to get commands off (Its this closeness that removed bst as a common event job after the nerf), smn compensates its ability to dish out extremely heavy dmg (If done right)every 20 seconds with the cost of mp and the fact they can stand at fair distance away while using BPs makes it more desirable, if you are having problems with mp so much, you need to work on your gear, for elemental syphon, base refresh after perpectuation, if you sub sch, you need to have a set for dark arts aspir too. there are so many options, even ones i haven't mentioned.

    Be aware smn is both a offence and enhancing job, one thing i will agree with you is its healing wards need to be enhances somewhat so its healing factor can get up'd to standards,
    (0)

  4. #44
    Player Brixy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    6
    Character
    Brixy
    World
    Phoenix
    Main Class
    SMN Lv 99
    Summoner's damage output is fine. Summoner overall is in a pretty good spot currently. I wish I could say that I couldn't complain but I would be lying... A lot. I wouldn't mind seeing avatar melee damage go up some because it's pretty abysmal but it's hard to be mad when I'm hitting 99k flaming crushes or 99k magic bursts with the right support. There is a lot of other things I can complain about though...

    -Nirvana is useless for magic bloodpacts which makes it really hard to use the aftermath or save tp for Myrkr if you plan on magic bursting because you swap Nirvana out. MAB needs to be added back to the weapon like it originally had... Bloodpact damage +40 and mab+90 puts it right around the same damage as an augmented Grioavolr (That should tell you how far behind Nirvana is...). Was +1 is a slap in the face to Nirvana owners btw so thanks for that.

    -Avatar enmity issues. Why do I pull enmity off my avatar with dia or a melee swing after it does 30k+ in damage from a bloodpact. This is really annoying when I am playing solo and also extremely exploitable in a party. In omen for Fu boss our group literally take 2 summoners and astral conduit it to death because Ifrit doesn't pull any enmity off the tank for spamming 99k Flaming Crushes... Where as any regular dd (not named rng) goes in and does 1 ws and immediately gets one shot for it. Idk whether to complain because it's annoying for solo or thank the devs that such an exploitable thing has been around for years and they don't seem to care.

    -useless bloodpacts and avatars. We have bloodpacts that are beyond terrible/gimmicky such as ??? Holy and Pavor Nocturunus when we could use things like Flurryga for Garuda. Odin is absolutely terrible and Alexander is not really worth wasting Astral Flow on anymore either. The stat boost from Astral Flow is better paired with Astral Conduit for bloodpact spam. No avatar even comes close to Ifrit in terms of raw damage output so Ifrit usually outclasses every other avatar in non-mb situations if you do not need the utility they offer (Ramuh's stun / Garuda's aoe cure).

    -Level 75 ward potency in 2017... really?

    -Pet command to prevent my avatar from attacking things would be lovely. Pressing Retreat 50 times and having my avatar constantly refuse to come back even if the thing it's fighting isn't targeting me is really stupid.

    -Nerf Astral Conduit into the ground and actually fix things that are wrong with Summoner. This 1hr is extremely broken and is one of the main reasons people think that Summoner is fine as a job. Make Apogee a 1 min cooldown so we can use it more for self avatar skillchains. I would literally trade my broken Astral Conduit for this 1 adjustment in a heartbeat. I'd rather play the job, not the 1hr.

    -Siren and Phoenix lol. Maybe add an Unbridled Learning type ability to Summoner that lets you summon higher tiered avatars like Odin, Alexander, Siren, Bahamut, and Phoenix. There is no reason to have Odin and alexander tied to 1hrs anymore. They are not worth wasting Astral Flow on and Ramuh's Thunderspark deals more damage than Zantetsuken on anything that matters... Could make new high tier battlefields and winning them rewards you with their pact to use.
    (1)
    Last edited by Brixy; 02-23-2017 at 01:59 AM.

  5. #45
    Player Zeargi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Currently: Windurst
    Posts
    743
    Quote Originally Posted by Songen View Post
    so allow BP wards to scale depending on the ward type such as nocshield etc, that is something worth adjusting
    And as for t1 BPs spells, they should scale with mp cost much like black mages scale too lower teir will ALWAYS deal less damage (While blm does get a body piece that converts dmg to mp, its only shines on MBs, other wise its minimal in comparison), BP gear does take its damage up a fair notch so shouldn't be complaining why you can't save mp using low teir BPs while fighting WoC, higher damage requires higher mp simple fact (T6 black mage nuke costs well over 400 mp as a example, thats 1/3rd-4th of their mp in one hit). The same goes for physical BPs, lower teirs should be dealing less dmg than higher teirs, even after they adjusted normal WSs to deal more damage, lower teirs attained higher damage but still retained lower damage than higher tier. hell, even tho beastmasters can reduces their timers to 15secs, their damage is severly limited by removing 2 slots for attack/acc gear for recast gear (Which causes the level penalty to increase), and the master MUST be in close range of pet to get commands off (Its this closeness that removed bst as a common event job after the nerf), smn compensates its ability to dish out extremely heavy dmg (If done right)every 20 seconds with the cost of mp and the fact they can stand at fair distance away while using BPs makes it more desirable, if you are having problems with mp so much, you need to work on your gear, for elemental syphon, base refresh after perpectuation, if you sub sch, you need to have a set for dark arts aspir too. there are so many options, even ones i haven't mentioned.

    Be aware smn is both a offence and enhancing job, one thing i will agree with you is its healing wards need to be enhances somewhat so its healing factor can get up'd to standards,
    Still those T1 spells can be spammed and oftentimes do more than an auto-attack of most melees. As for MP cost, it's very disproportionate. BLM gets a free cast every 5m where SMN's Apogee doubles the MP cost. I often times use up that same or more T6 spell cost at the start of a fight between Hastega II and Earthen Armor (Because God forbid people wait just a little bit for buffs) and I'm not even done buffing yet. I'm still far from being the best SMN by any means, because I don't have the billions and billions of gil invested in it that others do. But over the course, I've gotten somewhat decently geared, but there are those times that MP comes a little close. If SMN had a reverse Mana Cede/Tactical Switch so I could get TP and use Myrkr like BLM get to, it'd be great. Most of the times enemies simple just don't have MP or the recovery from Aspir is so low that it's not cost effective vs time cast. (Aspir, yet another under utilize thing in this MMO).

    Edit: The other reason a lot of those lower level BP needs to scale is because SMN lack of Piercing DMG



    Quote Originally Posted by Brixy View Post
    Summoner's damage output is fine. Summoner overall is in a pretty good spot currently. I wish I could say that I couldn't complain but I would be lying... A lot. I wouldn't mind seeing avatar melee damage go up some because it's pretty abysmal but it's hard to be mad when I'm hitting 99k flaming crushes or 99k magic bursts with the right support. There is a lot of other things I can complain about though...

    -Nirvana is useless for magic bloodpacts which makes it really hard to use the aftermath or save tp for Myrkr if you plan on magic bursting because you swap Nirvana out. MAB needs to be added back to the weapon like it originally had... Bloodpact damage +40 and mab+50 or so. Was +1 is a slap in the face to Nirvana owners btw so thanks for that.

    -Avatar enmity issues. Why do I pull enmity off my avatar with dia or a melee swing after it does 30k+ in damage from a bloodpact. This is really annoying when I am playing solo and also extremely exploitable in a party. In omen for Fu boss our group literally take 2 summoners and astral conduit it to death because Ifrit doesn't pull any enmity off the tank for spamming 99k Flaming Crushes... Where as any regular dd (not named rng) goes in and does 1 ws and immediately gets one shot for it. Idk whether to complain because it's annoying for solo or thank the devs that such an exploitable thing has been around for years and they don't seem to care.

    -useless bloodpacts and avatars. We have bloodpacts that are beyond terrible/gimmicky such as ??? Holy and Pavor Nocturunus when we could use things like Flurryga for Garuda. Odin is absolutely terrible and Alexander is not really worth wasting Astral Flow on anymore either. The stat boost from Astral Flow is better paired with Astral Conduit for bloodpact spam. No avatar even comes close to Ifrit in terms of raw damage output so Ifrit usually outclasses every other avatar in non-mb situations if you do not need the utility they offer (Ramuh's stun / Garuda's aoe cure).

    -Level 75 ward potency in 2017... really?

    -Pet command to prevent my avatar from attacking things would be lovely. Pressing Retreat 50 times and having my avatar constantly refuse to come back even if the thing it's fighting isn't targeting me is really stupid.

    -Nerf Astral Conduit into the ground and actually fix things that are wrong with Summoner. This 1hr is extremely broken and is one of the main reasons people think that Summoner is fine as a job. Make Apogee a 1 min cooldown so we can use it more for self avatar skillchains. I would literally trade my broken Astral Conduit for this 1 adjustment in a heartbeat. I'd rather play the job, not the 1hr.

    -Siren and Phoenix lol. Maybe add an Unbridled Learning type ability to Summoner that lets you summon higher tiered avatars like Odin, Alexander, Siren, Bahamut, and Phoenix. There is no reason to have Odin and alexander tied to 1hrs anymore. They are not worth wasting Astral Flow on and Ramuh's Thunderspark deals more damage than Zantetsuken on anything that matters... Could make new high tier battlefields and winning them rewards you with their pact to use.
    While I can agree with some, I can't agree with all. I do want the Nirvana to be fixed, the ilvl 119 III isn't even worth making as it stands currently.

    Avatar enmity issues are hit and miss, I'm more annoyed when I tell it to come back and after 50+ spams of it finally listens.

    I've made my list time and time again for the wards that need changed, and I still stand by them today.

    Also, I don't want Astral Conduit to change, because it's saved my life a few times between Whispering Winds and Predator Claw Spam >_>

    Personally I don't want any more single use avatars like Atomos, Odin, and Alexander. I want fixed avatars and more diversity
    (1)
    Last edited by Zeargi; 02-23-2017 at 01:02 PM.
    "What is a man? A miserable little pile of secrets. But enough talk... Have at you!" Lord Dracula - [Castlevania:SotN]

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