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  1. #11
    Player Secondplanet's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    San D'Oria
    Posts
    398
    Character
    Mortificator
    World
    Asura
    Main Class
    SMN Lv 99
    Something i would want them to give smn is a reverse mana cede effect so we can actually use weaponskills. Nirvana has a decent aftermath but expecting a smn to hit anything more then a rock and even then we could miss.
    (0)

  2. #12
    Player Malichi's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    California/ Bastok
    Posts
    31
    Character
    Malichi
    World
    Asura
    Main Class
    SMN Lv 99
    Quote Originally Posted by Secondplanet View Post
    I have been on these boards for some time now asking for our Wards to get fixed as Diablos Phalanx is 12 reduction..... really 12? I don't mind BP timers but at the same time it would be nice if the timers went towards points that can be stored to 3 so we can choose how to space out the attacks. Also i find avatars defense a joke as any proper ilvl mob will kill off any avatar in 2-3 hits or one TP/AoE attack which makes using BP's hard to use as they could die before pulling off the attack.

    Another thing that can be done to help update summoners is to update avatars favor to be more potent and to even add detrimental effects on monsters. But another thing i'm not sure if it effects things is that when i use BP's the icon for the avatar favor blinks making me wonder if it reset or not.
    Many BPs especially wards should have their potency overhauled, like Noctoshield for example, to scale with Summoning Magic Skill. For Noctoshield in particular should cap out around 25 in my opinion. But just so the RDM still has something to offer in this specific instance, make sure Phalanx and Phalanx II still overwrite. The other and probably simpler option would be to allow Noctoshield to stack with Phalanx or Phalanx II and if any balance issues arise place a hard cap on phalanx like buffs (a cap on the total damage reduction) Earthen Ward, Lightning Armor (stun proc) etcetera, all good examples of things that should be scaled. I don't want Summoner to replace anyone for any reason, just be able to keep up with everyone and remain as versatile and useful as it almost always has been.
    (0)

  3. #13
    Player Malichi's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    California/ Bastok
    Posts
    31
    Character
    Malichi
    World
    Asura
    Main Class
    SMN Lv 99
    Quote Originally Posted by Malichi View Post
    A quick solution in my mind would be to add a trait to SMN that makes the pet immune to damage from the time the command is given to the time it lands, which in a lore sense, guarantees the pact is fulfilled. That and the Caller's Pendant could be slightly more potent in its TP gain, OR make the timer for Mana Cede lower.
    To clarify my vision of pact fulfillment: a pet be it Jug Pet, Luopan, Wyvern, or Avatar should be excluded from damage until they themselves gain enmity whatsoever. In the case of Luopans they would get on a mobs hate list with the first action a GEO performs after they are cast that would accrue enmity to begin with. For balance purposes this idea might need tinkering as technically Luopans don't act on anything. As for Avatars Jug Pets and Wynavs/Wyverns once given a command should be allowed to persist until that task is complete even if taking fatal damage. Then, once their dying deed is done, well, they die.
    (0)

  4. #14
    Player dmuller30's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2016
    Posts
    100
    Character
    Kalitzo
    World
    Odin
    Main Class
    SMN Lv 99
    No one seems to have a problem with the timers but I do haha. Seriously watching my BLM friend spamming there 10-20k nukes while I have to wait 30 seconds to cast my own. Even on long fights BLM and any other DPS have the edge. On my BLU I can back to back CDC 10-20k the only timer I have is how fast I can get TP back but no matter what the occasion is it is definitely less than 30 seconds with just haste on I can spam 3+ times the amount of SMN's one BP, and that's without GEO's haste. Same goes for all my melee jobs that can use my BLU gear, I can spam WS's not to mention out dps my current SMN's auto attack considering my BLU hits for 200+ every hit at a super quick rate. And SMN only gets spike damage every 30 seconds I would say if we can't have the bp cool down timer down then raise the amount our avatars attack or give some DA / TA as a trait to our pet so that way we can keep up with other DPS. I love SMN to death but I feel that it is lack luster still compared to other DPS jobs. Also give them some defense! These new Escha mobs take down our avatars like flies.
    (0)

  5. #15
    Player Secondplanet's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    San D'Oria
    Posts
    398
    Character
    Mortificator
    World
    Asura
    Main Class
    SMN Lv 99
    also a reverse Mana Cede could help us use weaponskills like Mykr and even Garland of Bliss since there is a 0 chance of us going in to get TP.
    (0)

  6. #16
    Player dmuller30's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2016
    Posts
    100
    Character
    Kalitzo
    World
    Odin
    Main Class
    SMN Lv 99
    Quote Originally Posted by Secondplanet View Post
    also a reverse Mana Cede could help us use weaponskills like Mykr and even Garland of Bliss since there is a 0 chance of us going in to get TP.
    Yeah maybe even less the 0% chance of us going in to ws. . . . I think that would be an awesome idea.
    (0)

  7. #17
    Player Cabalabob's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    308
    Character
    Cabalabob
    World
    Phoenix
    Main Class
    SMN Lv 99
    Quote Originally Posted by dmuller30 View Post
    No one seems to have a problem with the timers but I do haha. Seriously watching my BLM friend spamming there 10-20k nukes while I have to wait 30 seconds to cast my own. Even on long fights BLM and any other DPS have the edge. On my BLU I can back to back CDC 10-20k the only timer I have is how fast I can get TP back but no matter what the occasion is it is definitely less than 30 seconds with just haste on I can spam 3+ times the amount of SMN's one BP, and that's without GEO's haste. Same goes for all my melee jobs that can use my BLU gear, I can spam WS's not to mention out dps my current SMN's auto attack considering my BLU hits for 200+ every hit at a super quick rate. And SMN only gets spike damage every 30 seconds I would say if we can't have the bp cool down timer down then raise the amount our avatars attack or give some DA / TA as a trait to our pet so that way we can keep up with other DPS. I love SMN to death but I feel that it is lack luster still compared to other DPS jobs. Also give them some defense! These new Escha mobs take down our avatars like flies.
    It's not really fair to compare SMN to other dps that way, yes BLM can blast out nukes, but they are far more mp costly than our BP and barely more powerful, and when a BLM is out of mp they contribute 0 anything. No dps or utility. When SMN is out of mp, which will take a lot longer than a BLM going nuke happy, they can still pop avatar's favour and give the party a buff while they recover in a refresh set and maybe even still throw in some cheap wards.

    BLU is the same, it can spam spells but when it's out of mp it's just a gimpy melee, yes it's melee is stronger than SMN but it's also at far greater risk, it has to be in AoE range to melee, SMN just has to send an expendable pet into AoE range to be a melee, and btw there is pet gear with double attack, haste etc. On it you just gotta go out there and find it.

    SMN is not a burst DD like those jobs, it's a sustainable damage risk free job with support capabilities.
    (0)
    Last edited by Cabalabob; 05-06-2016 at 07:18 AM.

  8. #18
    Player dmuller30's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2016
    Posts
    100
    Character
    Kalitzo
    World
    Odin
    Main Class
    SMN Lv 99
    Quote Originally Posted by Cabalabob View Post
    It's not really fair to compare SMN to other dps that way, yes BLM can blast out nukes, but they are far more mp costly than our BP and barely more powerful, and when a BLM is out of mp they contribute 0 anything. No dps or utility. When SMN is out of mp, which will take a lot longer than a BLM going nuke happy, they can still pop avatar's favour and give the party a buff while they recover in a refresh set and maybe even still throw in some cheap wards.

    BLU is the same, it can spam spells but when it's out of mp it's just a gimpy melee, yes it's melee is stronger than SMN but it's also at far greater risk, it has to be in AoE range to melee, SMN just has to send an expendable pet into AoE range to be a melee, and btw there is pet gear with double attack, haste etc. On it you just gotta go out there and find it.

    SMN is not a burst DD like those jobs, it's a sustainable damage risk free job with support capabilities.
    Gear DA / TA different then starting out with an initial value from a trait then stacking gear DA / TA to that. And as far as BLU and BLM. BLU's primary DPS is not magic it is CDC and BLU lasting in a fight isn't that hard because it is self healing self buffing and the list goes on and on with that job including any job traits that it self synthesizes . BLM I never see them run out of mp so I don't see mp = 0 BLMs ever. As for our pets I don't know how many times I have BPed and bam my pet is dead, that is 0 dps they seem to die in a few hits just from an AOE sometimes one hit from an AOE which is a wasted BP and 0 dps for that BP. Let's not mention all the enfeebs they have to endure while trying to BP. With your statement I we are just going to have to agree to disagree on that one, because I feel SMN is still weaker in the grand scheme of things compared to other DPS jobs, because lets be real SMN as a viable support was over at lvl 75 so that makes it a DPS class who in whole is usually under the rest.
    (1)
    Last edited by dmuller30; 05-06-2016 at 10:42 PM.

  9. #19
    Player Rydal's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2015
    Posts
    112
    Character
    Rydal
    World
    Ragnarok
    Main Class
    RDM Lv 99
    Quote Originally Posted by Cabalabob View Post
    It's not really fair to compare SMN to other dps that way, yes BLM can blast out nukes, but they are far more mp costly than our BP and barely more powerful, and when a BLM is out of mp they contribute 0 anything. No dps or utility. When SMN is out of mp, which will take a lot longer than a BLM going nuke happy, they can still pop avatar's favour and give the party a buff while they recover in a refresh set and maybe even still throw in some cheap wards.

    BLU is the same, it can spam spells but when it's out of mp it's just a gimpy melee, yes it's melee is stronger than SMN but it's also at far greater risk, it has to be in AoE range to melee, SMN just has to send an expendable pet into AoE range to be a melee, and btw there is pet gear with double attack, haste etc. On it you just gotta go out there and find it.

    SMN is not a burst DD like those jobs, it's a sustainable damage risk free job with support capabilities.
    BLM NEVER run out of MP and if they do, they shouldn't be playing this game. With so much refresh gear, Aspir, CONVERT?, Myrkr and Damage to MP gear, I haven't ever even heard of that.

    BLU is the only DD currently that can survive in high level content and still do great damage. BLU NEVER spams spells for damage unless they're cleaving and even then, they never run out of MP if they know what they're doing. Gimpy melee? How about the best melee in the game right now? Stacking Dual wield 5, Store TP 5, Attack Bonus 4-5, Accuracy bonus 4-5, Crit atk bonus 4-5, Double attack, Triple attack, Skillchain bonus 3+ and whatever other bonuses all on one job? No other melee job with equal gear can touch BLU. They can pretty much self-skillchain consistently without using chain affinity or BLU spells/other JAs.

    Comparing THAT to SMN? Ridiculous. SMN has no melee support outside their avatars. They have longer timers on their attacking and support abilities than BST. A BST pet can self-skillchain AND magic burst without having to wait for Ready to recharge. SCH can do the same without needing to be in range dangerous attacks. SMN has to pick if they want to help open or close a SC or MB once (maybe twice if they use their JA). We have to 1hr in order to self-SC AND MB in the same chain.

    SMN is being limited because of their versatility (SE logic). They're able to heal, buff, debuff, attack physically and magically, skillchain and magic burst. Funny how other jobs are just as versatile but don't have such a heavy limitation and in some cases get much better boons (BLU, GEO, SCH).
    (3)

  10. #20
    Player dmuller30's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2016
    Posts
    100
    Character
    Kalitzo
    World
    Odin
    Main Class
    SMN Lv 99
    Quote Originally Posted by Rydal View Post
    BLM NEVER run out of MP and if they do, they shouldn't be playing this game. With so much refresh gear, Aspir, CONVERT?, Myrkr and Damage to MP gear, I haven't ever even heard of that.

    BLU is the only DD currently that can survive in high level content and still do great damage. BLU NEVER spams spells for damage unless they're cleaving and even then, they never run out of MP if they know what they're doing. Gimpy melee? How about the best melee in the game right now? Stacking Dual wield 5, Store TP 5, Attack Bonus 4-5, Accuracy bonus 4-5, Crit atk bonus 4-5, Double attack, Triple attack, Skillchain bonus 3+ and whatever other bonuses all on one job? No other melee job with equal gear can touch BLU. They can pretty much self-skillchain consistently without using chain affinity or BLU spells/other JAs.

    Comparing THAT to SMN? Ridiculous. SMN has no melee support outside their avatars. They have longer timers on their attacking and support abilities than BST. A BST pet can self-skillchain AND magic burst without having to wait for Ready to recharge. SCH can do the same without needing to be in range dangerous attacks. SMN has to pick if they want to help open or close a SC or MB once (maybe twice if they use their JA). We have to 1hr in order to self-SC AND MB in the same chain.

    SMN is being limited because of their versatility (SE logic). They're able to heal, buff, debuff, attack physically and magically, skillchain and magic burst. Funny how other jobs are just as versatile but don't have such a heavy limitation and in some cases get much better boons (BLU, GEO, SCH).
    This is the crap that I am talking why have SE been putting SMN on the back burner for so long. To me and I know this isn't everyone, I feel as if SMN always gets shafted on the updates. Why not just have someone sit down and play it so they can see what's wrong with it and see if they want to deal with the SMN garbage we have to deal with. I mean it isn't as bad as it used to be there was no gear to help our pets lol, but still there is a bunch that needs to be fixed.

    -Timer needs to be lowered at least enough to SC like BST
    -Buffs needs to be fixed and taken off cap. Its been since lvl 75! WHY WHY WHY hasn't this been fixed yet?! It makes no sense 75 was how many years ago?!
    -Our pets HP and resistance need to be fixed
    -Stop giving us stuff for elementals . . . . WE DON'T EVEN USE THEM! Well at least I don't keep them out I just siphon them, I don't see any SMN in my group even using those things.

    If they lower the time for our BP's or increase the HP/Resistance then maybe they could increase the timer on our Avatars? Maybe make a healing JA for our pets or we can feed it food that heals them ? Idk something just needs to be fixed with this job because it has been so long since this job has had a proper adjustments and SE owes the SMN community some balance to this job.
    (1)

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