Free hand-outs?

[Pixela]

Oh...I understand now, you're a merc aren't you Diavolo?

Makes perfect sense now.

[Stompa]

If you want an item and I am selling said item your being granted that item by a goblin chest does indeed have an impact on me. That's just basic supply and demand. We're playing on servers/worlds with thousands of other people, everything we do has an impact of some sort on the world around us and just because you can't see it doesn't mean it isn't there.

We have 250 people on my server sometimes, including mules, AFK ppl, etc.

Your idea that free stuff from the Gobby box will somehow affect the economy or the AH or events, is maybe true on very busy hi-pop servers. On quiet servers, it is almost impossible to sell anything, so it doesn't matter if people are getting things from Gobby dials or logins. The sales rate is flat as a pancake anyway.

I actually agree with you in principle, people should team up and defeat NMs together, and it is true that you feel a better sense of accomplishment if you defeat a strong monster to get gear, than if you just click on a Gobby box. Also it is memories for the rest of your life, the time you and some friends pulled off a surprising win against a formidable foe, and you got a cool item you wanted. Those are indeed the greatest memories.

The Dev Team are working super-hard and pouring so much enthusiasm into their creative process, to try and make the game as much fun as possible for everyone. I can see this every time I visit this POL website, the Dev Team announcements are always filled with enthusiasm and hope, the Dev Team are doing everything they can think of to keep this game enticing for new and old players.

Having special login items, Gobby dials, and bonus events, this is the Dev team working very hard to try and make new and old players happy.

So a few years ago I put my principles on the shelf. Now I'm just so thankful every single day, FFXI is still online, I can still visit Vana'diel, still see my Tarutaru and my Automaton. I'm SO HAPPY that the game is still online.

And it is so obvious to me that the Dev Team love Vana'diel so much too, and they are trying very hard to add fun mini-events and novelty dials, and they've added so many improved game features, to add extra layers of fun and novelty to adventuring, for beginners and veterans alike.

[Diavolo]

Oh...I understand now, you're a merc aren't you Diavolo?

Makes perfect sense now.

The sense of disdain is almost palpable, but no, I am not. I played as such years ago and was a HNMLS leader for a couple of years, so I'm very familiar with the territory. Some of those "merc" players have become the most active and helpful members of the community, contributing both in game and on FFXI websites to help players such as yourself, so you may want to reconsider your position.

We have 250 people on my server sometimes, including mules, AFK ppl, etc.

Your idea that free stuff from the Gobby box will somehow affect the economy or the AH or events, is maybe true on very busy hi-pop servers. On quiet servers, it is almost impossible to sell anything, so it doesn't matter if people are getting things from Gobby dials or logins. The sales rate is flat as a pancake anyway.

Well, when I said we were playing on servers with thousands of people I was speaking about active subscribers, not simultaneous users, because the world and its economy keeps trucking along even when we're not there to take part in it, even on ghost town servers like the ones you and I play on. If a casual player spends all day farming content he or she finds difficult and only walks away with 1 or 2 items of value then has trouble selling said items because people like me are making the most of the goblin chests and login points then it's safe to assume that casual player will be less likely to go back and spend their time with that content again.

The fact that it's become so difficult to sell items on the AH is one of those factors that pushed me to start posting here, in a thread about server merges, knowing that the dev team at least monitors this forum. Unfortunately, it seems the vocal minority here is made up mostly of those completely against the idea of merging servers (or playing with others at all) and trying to convince my peers/friends to take part in the discussions here on the official forums is like trying to tell a cat to sit or roll over.

I actually agree with you in principle, people should team up and defeat NMs together, and it is true that you feel a better sense of accomplishment if you defeat a strong monster to get gear, than if you just click on a Gobby box. Also it is memories for the rest of your life, the time you and some friends pulled off a surprising win against a formidable foe, and you got a cool item you wanted. Those are indeed the greatest memories.

The Dev Team are working super-hard and pouring so much enthusiasm into their creative process, to try and make the game as much fun as possible for everyone. I can see this every time I visit this POL website, the Dev Team announcements are always filled with enthusiasm and hope, the Dev Team are doing everything they can think of to keep this game enticing for new and old players.

Having special login items, Gobby dials, and bonus events, this is the Dev team working very hard to try and make new and old players happy.

So a few years ago I put my principles on the shelf. Now I'm just so thankful every single day, FFXI is still online, I can still visit Vana'diel, still see my Tarutaru and my Automaton. I'm SO HAPPY that the game is still online.

And it is so obvious to me that the Dev Team love Vana'diel so much too, and they are trying very hard to add fun mini-events and novelty dials, and they've added so many improved game features, to add extra layers of fun and novelty to adventuring, for beginners and veterans alike.

I'm not against the idea of giving casual players a little extra incentive, I just wish it wasn't devaluing the game in the process by handing out end game rewards. They should have left it to stuff like trusts, mounts, food, costumes, fireworks and that sort of stuff - a mix of helpful and playful.

Despite being on a small server, I've been part of a rather large LS (sometimes 50+ members online at the same time) and seen a great many of those end game rewards given to players via goblin chest. On the one hand I'm happy they have that gear to make their jobs easier, but on the other hand I know it means they'll be spending less time with that end game content now, which effectively shortens its lifespan. Why, all so someone that doesn't even care about the end game scene can feel good about themselves for a few minutes? Could have triggered that release of dopamine in other ways.

I guess when all is said and done I want to die as I lived and, perhaps selfishly, I wish the dev team felt the same way about their game. FFXIV already did a great job of attracting the more casual, mainstream audience like World of Warcraft did, no need for them to continue shaping FFXI in WoW's image, too.

[Pixela]

The sense of disdain is almost palpable, but no, I am not. I played as such years ago and was a HNMLS leader for a couple of years, so I'm very familiar with the territory. Some of those "merc" players have become the most active and helpful members of the community, contributing both in game and on FFXI websites to help players such as yourself, so you may want to reconsider your position.

The disdain is well earned, I was in a few of the merc hnmls back in the day. I know what they did and why, none of it was "for the community" quite the opposite.

Anyway, they aren't going to change it for one simple reason, profitability. Login events for ffxi are the retainers of ffxiv.

[Stompa]

I guess when all is said and done I want to die as I lived and, perhaps selfishly, I wish the dev team felt the same way about their game. FFXIV already did a great job of attracting the more casual, mainstream audience like World of Warcraft did, no need for them to continue shaping FFXI in WoW's image, too.

I don't think that login campaigns and Gobby dials are anything to do with FFXIV or WOW. These things, and many others, are a response to the User Feedback from FFXI players right here on this FFXI Forum.

I will join /shout groups for fun, not for gear. I will kill Mission bosses just to help people, even though I have wins. I am not alone. Many people will join shouts for endgame content, because they like to play the game, and gear is nice but not the sole reason. On quiet low-pop servers, there are not many shouts, and uptake from shouts is very slow. I would suggest that this is the problem, and not the evil free stuffs login points and Gobby dials.

[Diavolo]

I don't think that login campaigns and Gobby dials are anything to do with FFXIV or WOW. These things, and many others, are a response to the User Feedback from FFXI players right here on this FFXI Forum.

The problem is that they're only using feedback from a tiny fraction of the players if/when they do that and there's no way of knowing how well those posting on this forum represent the general population. You won't catch me speaking on behalf of others, claiming that a large number of players agree with me in order to sway an argument one way or another because there's simply no way to validate such claims. My mistake (and theirs) is not taking part in the discussions here sooner.

I will join /shout groups for fun, not for gear. I will kill Mission bosses just to help people, even though I have wins. I am not alone. Many people will join shouts for endgame content, because they like to play the game, and gear is nice but not the sole reason. On quiet low-pop servers, there are not many shouts, and uptake from shouts is very slow. I would suggest that this is the problem, and not the evil free stuffs login points and Gobby dials.

That is indeed a problem and I've made my opinion known in the last server merge thread that came up.

[Angemon]

I agree with you Diavolo

[Stompa]

The problem is that they're only using feedback from a tiny fraction of the players if/when they do that and there's no way of knowing how well those posting on this forum represent the general population. You won't catch me speaking on behalf of others, claiming that a large number of players agree with me in order to sway an argument one way or another because there's simply no way to validate such claims. My mistake (and theirs) is not taking part in the discussions here sooner.



That is indeed a problem and I've made my opinion known in the last server merge thread that came up.

Well, as I see it there are two main points here really.

You don't like UNM Dial, because you feel that it will damage the Unity system, in that you will be shouting for a UNM and you need a WHM, and the WHM will not join because they got all their UNM stuff from the Gobby Dial.

I think this is very unlikely. Number one, most people will prefer to use Linkshell members, as they know they can trust those players more than random PUG players. Number two, the WHM or w/e job you are shouting for, has to be online when you are shouting, they can't be doing other events like Ambuscade etc. They have to be online, and free, and wanting to farm that specific UNM. And for your theory to work, that person also has to have obtained the drops from that UNM already, via Gobby Box. I would describe the odds of this situation occurring as microscopic. The odds of it happening so often that it affects the UNM system, are basically too small to even compute. Especially as the Gobby Dial seems to give random junk instead of gear, around 99% of the time. I still haven't got a single piece of gear from the UNM dial after many attempts.

The second point is that you have to balance the Pros and Cons. The Cons I have detailed above, are incredibly tiny and unlikely. The Pros of having "fun mini-games and timed events with random lucky stuff" are that MANY people really enjoy that kind of fun. People even pay $$$ for extra content IDs, just to do Login Points and to spin the Gobby Dials. People enjoy it. People pay extra subs for it. Paying extra subs keeps the game online.

I think complaining about things that other people enjoy, and they are paying subs for it, is actually missing the big picture, which is that the game needs all the subs it can get, and SE are adding fun mini-game / event content because they know that a lot of people enjoy that kind of stuff. I think it is good that people enjoy FFXI, and pay subs. Anything else is just opinions, opinions which would mean nothing at all if the game was offline due to lack of subs.

[Cabalabob]

It made me look up unity wanted NMs cause I didn't know what they were so, raises awareness of the content I guess. If you get a NQ piece you'll still have to fight the NM to upgrade it.

[Diavolo]

You don't like UNM Dial, because you feel that it will damage the Unity system, in that you will be shouting for a UNM and you need a WHM, and the WHM will not join because they got all their UNM stuff from the Gobby Dial.

My feelings towards the free hand-outs extends to quality of rewards from the special dial as well as all the campaign-specific dials such as the UNM one currently in play and no, it's not about people getting "all their UNM stuff from the Gobby Dial", it's getting anything at all from it. It all has an impact, be it positive or negative, to some degree and that is the case with each and every coffer popped everyday. The AH suddenly has more UNM items available and players now have access to more of their gear, NQ and HQ alike, all of that without a single second spent taking part in Unity Wanted Battles at all. Going a step further, you have to consider the effect it has on player interaction, both with others in the game and the content itself. Casual players like Cabalabob who don't pay much attention to RoE may pop the chest and think "Oh wow, where's this come from?" then proceed to attempt the battle on their own or with LS mates/friends/PUGs in order to get gear or items to +1 whatever they got. Raising awareness is always a positive.

It goes the other way, too, of course. For example, those few Celine Vines that might have kept you fighting the UNM til you got enough to +1 your gear will now have you leaving the fight early, not enjoying that final fight that will be remembered for the WHM that solo'd it at 1%. Those few Sarama hides you got from the dial and you sold on the AH will now be bought by a BLU so he can +1 the Tanmogayi he got from his daily dial, making him decide against taking part in a late night Sarama run with his LS mates because he already got what he considered its best drop, in turn denying him access to the Tumult Curator fight they'd spontaneously decide to do one night down the road. Basically, the butterfly effect.

The second point is that you have to balance the Pros and Cons. The Cons I have detailed above, are incredibly tiny and unlikely. The Pros of having "fun mini-games and timed events with random lucky stuff" are that MANY people really enjoy that kind of fun. People even pay $$$ for extra content IDs, just to do Login Points and to spin the Gobby Dials. People enjoy it. People pay extra subs for it. Paying extra subs keeps the game online.

The goblin dials aren't mini games at all, they're simply a brief menu of options. While receiving nice gear is something that might bring you joy, I'm not sure how you find navigating said menu to be fun.

Again, I have nothing against those goblin chests, but I do wish they weren't handing out stuff we should ideally all be out there playing to get a hold of. I thought Escha/Reis made for a nice return to more old school battlegrounds with content rising in difficulty as you progressed through the ranks... then a lot of those drops got handed to us for free via goblin dials. Was that really necessary to keep the more casual among us interested in logging in? I'm quite certain they'd have been just as happy with other rewards.

Also, I find the claim that people are paying $13/month or more for content IDs solely to roll the dice at the goblin dials you yourself claim give random junk 99% of the time a bit much. Lots of people pay for multiple accounts, myself included, but since the goblin dials and login points started I have yet to come across a single person claiming that was the reason they were doing it. Does anyone here do that?

I think complaining about things that other people enjoy, and they are paying subs for it, is actually missing the big picture, which is that the game needs all the subs it can get, and SE are adding fun mini-game / event content because they know that a lot of people enjoy that kind of stuff. I think it is good that people enjoy FFXI, and pay subs. Anything else is just opinions, opinions which would mean nothing at all if the game was offline due to lack of subs.

If you are paying $13/month to roll the dice on gear from the goblin dial and enjoy it, that's fine. As you know, I'm all for providing options. If you believe charging people $13/month to roll the dice at the goblin dial is a good way to encourage people to return/subscribe to a long running MMORPG like Final Fantasy XI then I will vehemently disagree.

It made me look up unity wanted NMs cause I didn't know what they were so, raises awareness of the content I guess. If you get a NQ piece you'll still have to fight the NM to upgrade it.

You're right about raising awareness, I suppose. You can upgrade the gear simply by buying the materials from the AH/bazaars, though.