Why are grips so bad?

[cengeal]

I think you misunderstood. I read it all. I just didn't address it all because most of it was incorrect, pointless, or already addressed in a previous discussion. Why am I so abrasive? Probably because of all the self censoring I have to do while responding to certain people on the official forums, on a account of the, word that rhymes with smascist, moderation rules. Or it could do with how I hate having to repeat myself, and after I pointed out how wrong this is in a separate thread, you had to go and make a new topic in which it is still wrong, but you try and qualify it as right by saying the most recent weapons don't count for some unknown reason. What do I hope to accomplish? For you to stop.

I'm not going to stop just because you think you're some sort of truth bomb dropping genius. Grips are bad and need to be improved. I never said the new JSE weapons don't count, only that they are a single option, and that by using them players tend to lose something (mostly base damage, but gain other things in the process). Now you're probably going to blow that statement out of proportion and insinuate that I said the JSE weapons were bad. You took things out of context, you implied I thought this was an end all be all solution, when I only said this was a step in the right direction, and you constantly try to insert your opinion as fact (Rudra's being garbage). If you don't like repeating yourself, leave it alone. You don't have to comment, you don't even have to read it. These forums are designed for people to express their opinions. Believe it or not, your opinion is not more important than anybody else's.

And I'm curious, what did you actually prove wrong? That JSE scythe + acc+10 grip has more accuracy than a capped taming sari + sandung augmented? You compared the best 2H acc example to not-the-best DW example. Better comparison would be Capped Ochu (+36-37) + Shigi (+77) vs Scythe (+85) + w/e grip has 10 acc on it. The combined katanas have more accuracy, so I guess I just proved you wrong, even though you didn't actually disagree with the statement to begin with. But I just proved in a single instance that dual wielding two weapons gets you more accuracy, so I must be right.

[cengeal]

SE: Can we get new crafted grips from Escha/Reisinjima drops?

I would like to see that as well. Maybe give something new for crafters to maybe make an HQ version of it, and would give more options.

[OmnysValefor]

I'd just like to point out that as a Heavy DD evolves, they want to grow out of their JSE weapon into bigger weapons. If accuracy is an issue on a new boss, they could fall back to their JSE weapon and suffer damage penalties for the sake of hitting more.

If a dual-wield job is having a crisis of accuracy on high-level content, they can leave a potent weapon in their main hand and equip their Sandung (or whatever 1h weapon their job uses) as offhand and gain back critical accuracy.

Hitting the boss is more important than whiffing the boss hard, but dual wield jobs barely need to make that choice.

[Ketaru]

You know, we need to be honest and admit we're only talking about a select few dual wield jobs. PLD may mainly equip 1H swords, but they are more often have to equip a shield, so the dual wield thing doesn't generally apply to them. BSTs have taken to equipping Charmer's Merlin in their subhand to maximize their damage output, lest they equip it in their main hand and cripple their iLevel. But the subhanding of Charmer's Merlin doesn't actually do anything for "them" (and let's be honest, BST melee is garbage anyway, just like any justification for the nerf by saying BSTs were meant to melee alongside their pets) Other jobs like RDM and RNG may dual wield, but nobody ever complains about them when we're talking about dual wield jobs.

When we're talking about "dual wield" jobs, most people are talking about three- THF, BLU, and DNC.

I also see WAR thrown into the 2h group a lot, but that conveniently ignores two things:

- Historically, they have not always been a 2h weapon wielder. They just moved into that when 2h was buffed over 1h. Before the 2h buff, they dual wielded axes, and Ridill if they had the good fortune to have one. And they were highly valued for it.

- In fact, we talk about WAR now as if they can only equip Great Axe REMs. But that's not true at all. They can equip Farsha, for example, and can learn Cloudsplitter. And they have about as much access to MAB gear as BST does. Maybe not as much as RNG or COR can for Trueflight, Leaden Salute, or Wildfire. But the option is there, and for the purpose of skillchains, it's certainly a good one, especially since it can't "miss."

I just bring this up because I think it is ridiculous that people who complain about the accuracy issue are always trying to come up with ways to benefit their jobs at the exclusion of other jobs without who might genuinely need such a change.

though Dual Wielding certain swords or daggers on RDM is better than a staff...

While that is certainly true, it also means subbing /NIN or /DNC for the purpose of spellcasting, which is incredibly problematic when you think about how much you're losing from not subbing something like /SCH or /WHM. At least RDM does have several options for magic-friendly shields.

[OmnysValefor]

Ulth,

The community likes to say that "noone's bringing melee anyway" because it's largely true. Bosses where melee are preferred basically have to take such absurdly low magic damage that people would rather take melee.

I know you know these things, but scholars don't feed the boss large amounts of TP in order to skillchain. They also aren't in critical danger from the boss, or in any danger at all most of the time.

The hate BLMs produce is so laughably minute and they have practically limitless MP.

All these things considered, melee need a leg up and 2h melee, being further behind dw melee, need a bigger step up.

It's bandwagoning that makes jobs have much greater representation than other jobs of the same role. It's something wrong with the job/role when you never see anyone on it. Right now, there's something wrong with all melee, and something further wrong with 2h melee.

I never see a Warrior, DRK, or SAM around Valefor. I've never had a War or Drk or DRG in any of my apex parties. None ever even ask. However, I get all the BLU and THF I could ever want. The only Samurai I've had in my Apex parties is Welfare (our own random shout-spammer, to be polite).

Yes, we're talking about players not in the best gear, because in order to get that best gear they have to get invited to the ladder of content and they're not getting invited to the content. Yes, true, they could level a different job. That's my attitude, that's what I do, but maybe SE could fix the disparity between a 2h weapon + augment + grip vs a 1h weapon + augment + offhand 1h weapon + augment.

The very fact that 2h JSE weapons have more accuracy means that SE recognizes there is a problem.

[OmnysValefor]

You know, we need to be honest and admit we're only talking about a select few dual wield jobs. PLD may mainly equip 1H swords, but they are more often have to equip a shield, so the dual wield thing doesn't generally apply to them. BSTs have taken to equipping Charmer's Merlin in their subhand to maximize their damage output, lest they equip it in their main hand and cripple their iLevel.

These are fair points.

* PLD should basically never dual wield. It's amazing how squishy PLD is when he sets a shield down and without any offensive abilities from main job (hey, it's a paldin), it's just really terrible dps. It's about as effective as a bst not using a pet.

When we're talking about "dual wield" jobs, most people are talking about three- THF, BLU, and DNC.

NIN should be included in there, but you make a fair point.

I just bring this up because I think it is ridiculous that people who complain about the accuracy issue are always trying to come up with ways to benefit their jobs at the exclusion of other jobs without who might genuinely need such a change.

Yeah I know what you mean! I'm a PLD Main with GEO secondary and blu for farming. A buff to 2h will be so epic of my...GS pld?

Some people can actually see beyond their own jobs. Buffing accuracy on 2h weapons will not do much for me. RUN will be my next job, in fairness, but I already have great acc gear (of course RUN has access to gear that WAR/DRK/SAM/DRG generally don't). Maybe I won't be DDing on CL135 as RUN, but I don't want to either. I've brought the topic of the disparity before simply because I can see a gap.

SE deserves credit, JSE weapon augments were well done, but I think augments on all tiers for 2h weapons should be adjusted. If they'd rather do that with potent grips, that's fine too.