SMN still low on the totem?

[dmuller30]

I have recently came back to FFXI and I been playing my SMN with my brother he is a MNK. As soon as he turned 99 it seems like he was doing so much more DPS then me in just spark gear it made me a bit irritated. Is SMN subject to only being good with amazing gear with no in between. Is the cap for SMN bp timer capped at 30 seconds? I am 100 jp in which I know isn't much but find myself feeling that other jobs can easily outperform SMN in decent gear. I feel that if I am going to be even decent on SMN I need to have every single piece of hard to get gear just to catch up to the dps of other jobs. Any tips or anything to better myself I would like to hear.

[Kensagaku]

If you're looking at purely DPS, in a lot of cases yes. That 30 second timer means that, while with later gear you can get some pretty impressive numbers, you're still limited in your overall damage over time. But there's a couple of points to offset it that makes SMN still have a pretty decent niche in current content.

1) Viability - The current paradigm of monster design and player mindset does not favor melee in any way. AoEs that do a large amount of damage combined with potent debuffs, nasty auras, etc makes it less viable to take melee because doing so requires extra support. Your pet is expendable for quick damage while being able to be resummoned only moments after it dies, meaning that it's essentially cannon fodder that won't stay down as long as you maintain your MP, as opposed to DDs who require more members to not die, meaning monsters with more HP due to scaling. So while that MNK may be out-DPSing you, he'll stop doing so once he starts taking repeated dirt naps and you just resummon your Avatar.

2) Versatility - SMN isn't just about DPS, it's also about the large amount of buffs/debuffs it has, as they do actually make a modestly notable difference. Hastega II is great for a long-duration Haste II effect on your entire party, while Diamond Storm can help land those hits if you do bring melee along. Shock Squall is a great AoE stun and extremely fast, and then you've got entire strategies revolving around Mewing Lullaby to restrict TP moves from ever going off by locking down TP. Fenrir's Ecliptic Growl is great for stopping mobs with high-number dispels (unless they're full dispels, then bleh) because it'll soak up a good 3+ of those dispels with small stat buffs and leave some of the other potent ones in place. Etc etc. SMN has a wide array of versatility, making it very useful even if it doesn't shine in damage alone.

To be decent on SMN you don't just need to get "every piece of hard to get gear" to catch up. You need to also figure out the job's versatility and abilities too. Gear will still be very important of course, and don't forget that it's not just your avatar; though it's an inventory cruncher, I actually maintain a debuff set for /SCH, a Cure Potency set at all times, etc. Heck, I know some diehard SMNs who have the space (not me, my wardrobe is cross-job between a number of jobs) maintain a nuke set for /sch dark arts to add a little DPS, though that tends to just be fodder mobs mostly.

I'm not the pro SMN that some of the people are in the thread, so I'm sure my advice will have its flaws to be pointed out, but for the most part SMN is in a generally good position right now.

[Frodnon]

yes and no
A poorly geared to midrange summoner will be extremely underwhelming in most everything. The breaking point is when you get a helios/apogee/merlinic tier set with solid bloodpact damage and MAB/attack.
A well to perfect geared summoner would be able to trio yorcia delve in <15 minutes. Be able to do kirin/kouryu, close one of the strongest Light skillchains in the game, join those APEX JP parties or AOE escha groups. Check out duessa's(papesse's) videos on youtube to see what it can do.

SMN is now very much gated by it's gear.

[dmuller30]

Yeah I figured. SMN is still so bound by the 30 second bp timer, it is a lot lower then it was several years ago but it saddens me that this class still hasn't got the dramatic improvements I see to other jobs. The avatar should get all the stats of your summon + what ever strengths the avatar excels in. I am finding it hard that you need god like gear to even be decent at this job lol. This job is not for the returning player I can tell you that much. And sorry Ken a lot of the SMN avatars abilities are still capped at 99 and still need adjustments the buffs are sub par at best and need a refresher for new content. There is not even gear to make those better. I agree with some of what you say but this job needs a super job adjustment to keep up with the other jobs, it should not be locked or gated by having the best gear just to be a decent SMN>

[Shirai]

I think you're overestimating the "godlike" armor a bit here. Most of the gear you need to play summoner effectively can actually be obtained quite easily, and most of it can be obtained without the help of others.
It just takes a little bit of time and effort, then again, none of the other jobs simply faceroll into endgame either.

[edit]
I see Frod's reply isn't really helping.

[Frodnon]

I think you're overestimating the "godlike" armor a bit here. Most of the gear you need to play summoner effectively can actually be obtained quite easily, and most of it can be obtained without the help of others.
It just takes a little bit of time and effort, then again, none of the other jobs simply faceroll into endgame either.

[edit]
I see Frod's reply isn't really helping.

The base tier to be 'endgame' is apogee nq. Quite easy to obtain with minimal effort, but not easily soloable, any of the pieces from t1 that arent caturae should be doable with 119 and trusts. I tell everyone that it is the baseline, if you cant break or beat that baseline you shouldnt consider your smn viable for further endgame content such as vd battlefields, t3 escha, sinister reign or higher level unm. A focused bloodpact damage set (or sets!) Is essential for later content, just like a nuke set on geo, a magic burst damage set on blm, or a dt set on a dd. Im talking the farthest tiers of endgame.


I also tell beginner players that unless you have a seraphicaller you aren't ready to farm for anything, that item is always the first step.

Viability wise, smn is in a strong spot, when you are geared and have the jp to back it up and wth the proper group composition. Astral flow/conduit is one of the biggest sources of spike damage in the game.

[Shirai]

Uh, I was pointing more in the direction of reforged Artifact, Relic and some Helios equipment to start with. (And maybe start on getting your Empyrian equipment to at least 109)
Apogee is good gear, but there are alternatives to a starting Endgame summoner, putting emphasis on starting endgame summoner.

As for the Seraphicaller, which is one of the true vital pieces, with the current High Tier BCNM campaign going on chances are they are dropping to the floor left and right so any starting or returning Summoner can pretty much shout for one and have a pretty big chance of getting it for free.

And from the above list Helios will probably be the hardest to obtain solo, but considering the stones used to augment gear still go for a pretty penny you ahouldn't have a hard time getting a group to do a couple of runs.
After that, it all comes down to getting lucky with the augments.

You are really making this sound a lot harder than it actually is.

[Frodnon]

Starting endgame gear is apogee set. Its better than helios and alot easier than running that augmenting gamut.
Helios is a much more expensivd endeavor for lesser stats.

[Shirai]

Apogee is not starter gear, it's the next step up.

Also; The cost of augmenting those completely depends on the luck of the draw, the way of obtaining the stones and how perfect you want the augments.
A few decently augmented Helios bits will be enough to push a player to the tier where they can start effectively help fight the mobs that actually drop the Apogee abjurations instead of hoping they can leech.
And Helios gear is easy to get hold of.

[Dekusuta]

Apogee gear NQ generally gives you stats much better than maxed out Helios gear augments at a fraction of the cost, depending on your luck with augments. In some cases, they are super cheap. on my server Bewitched Crown is selling at 100k due to crafters spamming it to +1.

But with augment stones prices dropping, I wouldn't dissuade anyone from going the Helios route to start. The base armor is easy to get and the +1 stones are reasonably priced now.

For Helios gear, focus on augmenting legs/head/hands (in that order)

For Body
The artifact ilvl 119 body is very nice with BP DMG +12 so go for that and there's no expensive or 'gated' material required.

I'd argue convoker's doublet +1 can be kept for the remainder of your builds. Unless you have a lot of gil to blow, inventory space to waste, getting a near max augmented helios body is just a hassle and only 'better' for magical BPs. Conv. Doublet +1 a really nice piece. almost a giveaway by SE to SMNs.

For feet
Artifact ilvl 119 again comes to the rescuse with a BP DMG +6 stat; and a -4 perp stat
it's practically a max augment skirmish gear.

Hands
Glyphic +1 (this is the ilvl 119 relic gear) is nice for magic bursting. It destroys Helious augment gear for merited bloodpacts during magic bursts until you get merlinic with good augments.

I would recommend you try and get merlinic and skip helios if possible, even if it's doing a shout for that T1 NM in reisenjima, but to get there you probably need all your other pieces or your SMN won't be doing much damage.


Then from there build out and upgrade.