Suggestion to increase desire for all jobs: Voidwatch

[Olor]

I loved VW too but let's be real. You didn't bring a SCH, you brought a BLM. You didn't bring a DRK, you brought a WAR and hoped you didn't get any DRK-only WS. You could bring a PLD but it was just as easy to bring someone /PLD. And you'd never bring BST or PUP, you'd just ignore those procs and move on to the next pop.

People were way more flexible than that. As long as the PLD was willing to switch weapons and help do WS triggers they would be welcome...um people brought DRK all the time because DRK Resolution spam was awesome at the time and when you were capped you wanted it dead. SCH's were totally commonly invited if they were avail but there was just more BLM so yeah you'd make do with a BLM if you had to.

The only jobs that people shrugged off were bst and pup and I still saw people come on those. Basically a full alliance was always better than a perfect one.... couldn't find 2 BLU, well you'd take one and get someone else on something else. It was veeeery rare for an alliance that had most bases covered to not just take w/e

[OmnysValefor]

Detlef's apparently right, it varied from server to server. Somebody would conceive something that worked and it would roll down into other groups. Never really saw a bard at VW, as blm/brd could handle it.

Although I seem to remember it being blu/pld more than whm/pld. With proc spells equipped, the blu was pretty useless anyway.

Before Adoulin, there were 20 jobs for an 18 man alliance. You had to make some concessions, especially since some fights you wanted more than one whm or more than one blm. Further, it wasn't always easy to get 18 or 16 different jobs. You eventually got tired of shouting and took what was willing--and that was during the game's healthier days.

[detlef]

Read my next post after that one. Also, it probably depends on what era you did VW. The era I'm referring to was when VW was the next content that came after Abyssea when VS and Ukko's were at their peak of power. There were a ton of people who had WAR geared and skilled for Abyssea procs (back then you often rolled with a WAR and NIN duo for procs rather than relying on NIN like we do today). A significant portion of those WARs came with an Ukonvasara. Likewise MNK was half of the MNK-WHM blunt time duo and also had Victory Smite which was also very powerful at the time. There was no reason not to bring these two jobs to VW because they provided a lot of WS procs while leading the way in damage. Reso spam was the rage near the tail end of that era, I don't remember if it was the next big thing after VS/Ukko's got nerfed. I'm not sure where that came in relative to Provenance and VW's heyday. But while I think you can defend DRK, SCH just didn't bring much to the table and nobody had just SCH with no flexibility to switch jobs.

Again, sure you could bring nearly one of everything but certain jobs could easily be left out for various reasons.

[Olor]

I admittedly didn't get in on voidwatch till it was about midway of its heyday but I was in plenty of groups with SCH. Yes BLU/PLD was a thing but PLD was desired for some fights (eg morta to hold adds). We had bards all the time, never saw a BLM/brd in VW. Sure you have elemental seal but there are a few elements with more than one possible proc...

I am not saying there was no job exclusivity but it was far far better than any event these days.

[detlef]

Yeah you'd still have BRDs. That's what I played so my groups always had it. I think that was the only way to cap haste at the time so you had to have them.

[OmnysValefor]

You know, the other thing too.. Yeah VW made you want to bring a variety of jobs, but it wasn't actually playing the jobs, it was slowing dps so that the EV person could try to land the proc and invariably it was someone without the skill to do so thus it took several tries.

I just don't remember VW being as fun as everyone else. I'm not really fond of temps-dependent content or atma, atmacites, or vorseals, though vorseals aren't nearly as potent as the other two.

[Kensagaku]

Yeah... I remember those days of the EV proc near the end. "GS 5 / GS EV!" RESOLUTION RESOLUTION RESOLUTION "RESOLUTION IS NOT A PROC."

Or those BLUs who couldn't land their debuffs. Or those stupid instances where a dark-resistant mob like Pil had a dark weakness... e_o Yeah, those were the days.

[Olor]

There were frustrations to be sure, but from my perspective at least I got to do relevant content with other people. Now I sub... solo for a bit... log out and feel no motivation to log back in. It's just depressing.

[OmnysValefor]

That's kinda what it boiled down to. For the hardcore people that will come on necessary jobs, Voidwatch was a pain at time bringing jobs that did terrible damage because the procs were good to have.--

I play PLD. Other than fights with adds, PLD was fairly useless for most VW bosses because the DDs were tanking. Still, I generally got to go for shield bash, and swinging a staff/sword.

--For the people that focus on one job and want to bring that job to everything, Voidwatch made that happen.

I'm not even talking about balance here--rather than buff the jobs that needed buffing (or nerf the jobs that needed nerfing) they had us relying on crap damage spells/abilities.

[Domille]

Voidwatch had phases, I think everyone forgets this.

In the beginning, ANYONE could go, it was a non-issue, you would NEVER kill the mob before you capped lights... killing it at all was an issue.

Then.... RME gained huge prevalence, and it "started" to limit options. The rewards just werent good enough to keep the best people playing, and quality started to go down.

After that, was like a renaissance, it was amazing, anyone could go, all procs were hit, they went fast, all jobs were good to go it almost didn't matter.

Then it was completely dead. SPAM RESOLUTION!!!!!!!!!!! SPAM FUDO!!!!!!!!! No procs given, no lights hit, all mules as blues, it went to hell. (for shouts)