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  1. #11
    Player Aeron's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Posts
    137
    Character
    Lanselot
    World
    Asura
    Main Class
    PLD Lv 99
    What aegis does is effective let you survive at lower max hps. They have eased this a lil bit by giving us vorseals. I would say that if you wanted to attempt to do endgame without aegis you would have to stack more hp to counteract the increased dmg that you are going to be taking, as well as once you hit 50mdt either through gear or shell that you also stack mdb. /run helps a lot when you know what specific type of element that is going to be cast against you, just use the appropriate runes and valiance.
    (0)

  2. #12
    Player Urthdigger's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Bastok
    Posts
    313
    Character
    Urthdigger
    World
    Fenrir
    Main Class
    MNK Lv 99
    Quote Originally Posted by Aeron View Post
    What aegis does is effective let you survive at lower max hps. They have eased this a lil bit by giving us vorseals. I would say that if you wanted to attempt to do endgame without aegis you would have to stack more hp to counteract the increased dmg that you are going to be taking, as well as once you hit 50mdt either through gear or shell that you also stack mdb. /run helps a lot when you know what specific type of element that is going to be cast against you, just use the appropriate runes and valiance.
    Not really sure that's quite accurate. True, higher max HP does help accommodate for taking more damage, but the rate of damage taken is still important even if one had 1000x our current max HP due to whether the rate of damage taken is more than the healer's healing output, and whether the healer's MP can last the entirety of the encounter.

    Another issue I've noticed is that -mdt% can be just plain hard to come by compared to -pdt%. I'm not sure hitting 50% mdt is exactly feasible for most alternative tanks.
    (0)
    He once sold his soul to Promathia for a rare drop. He later won it back in a drinking contest, before beating up the twilight god for good measure.
    He's won dance-off trophies from the Republic of Bastok, the Duchy of Jeuno, and the Yagudo Theomilitary.
    He's won entire arguments with a single leer.
    He is the most interesting galka in the world.

  3. #13
    Player Kensagaku's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    652
    Character
    Kensagaku
    World
    Valefor
    Main Class
    DRG Lv 99
    Sure it is. First off, you gain 25% from just Shellra V. That's half of your cap right there. Then you've got Twilight Torque and Defending Ring bringing you up to 40%, a good Dark Ring bringing you up to 44~46%, and from there 4% is not hard to find.

    If you're going straight to 50% from 0, then yes, that's difficult for non-tanks. Good thing Shell V covers half the gap, unlike Protect only raising Defense.
    (0)
    [Kensagaku - formerly of Kujata] - http://www.ffxiah.com/player/Valefor/Kensagaku

  4. #14
    Player Aeron's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Posts
    137
    Character
    Lanselot
    World
    Asura
    Main Class
    PLD Lv 99
    Quote Originally Posted by Urthdigger View Post
    Not really sure that's quite accurate. True, higher max HP does help accommodate for taking more damage, but the rate of damage taken is still important even if one had 1000x our current max HP due to whether the rate of damage taken is more than the healer's healing output, and whether the healer's MP can last the entirety of the encounter.

    Another issue I've noticed is that -mdt% can be just plain hard to come by compared to -pdt%. I'm not sure hitting 50% mdt is exactly feasible for most alternative tanks.
    As long as you aren't getting one shotted then it is possible to heal through anything although it is a lot more work. The tank will need a full cure received set 30% to help the whm with mp management. It is also recommended that the tank have a cure potency set and a full 80% cast time reduction on cures. Another recommendation I would make if you are going to do this on pld is have 5/5 on chivalry merits and the Caballarus Gauntlets +1 as well as ethereal earring, flume belt, and chevalier's arment +1 for mp return. I may ask my ls to try and attempt this just to prove it can be done (I would provide the pops) I like a challenge after all.
    (0)

  5. #15
    Player Aeron's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Posts
    137
    Character
    Lanselot
    World
    Asura
    Main Class
    PLD Lv 99
    The best +hp gear you can get is Souveran Set +1 for the amount of gil that it would take you to get this set if you were buying it for pld you could make an aegis very easily so the question really is do you want to pay some crafter for highly specialized gear or build an Aegis or just tank on Rune Fencer.
    (0)

  6. #16
    Player Kensagaku's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    652
    Character
    Kensagaku
    World
    Valefor
    Main Class
    DRG Lv 99
    Do note, Aeron, he's looking to tank on MNK. I don't agree with it being a currently wise decision seeing that the damage output is simply too much to just power through, but I don't think PLD advice is going to help him. :P
    (1)
    [Kensagaku - formerly of Kujata] - http://www.ffxiah.com/player/Valefor/Kensagaku

  7. #17
    Player Aeron's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Posts
    137
    Character
    Lanselot
    World
    Asura
    Main Class
    PLD Lv 99
    Quote Originally Posted by Kensagaku View Post
    Do note, Aeron, he's looking to tank on MNK. I don't agree with it being a currently wise decision seeing that the damage output is simply too much to just power through, but I don't think PLD advice is going to help him. :P
    I missed the first page and didn't read his post until now, but good point Ken lol. Although it is still entirely possible to cap out -mdt on mnk relatively easily. That 4mdt you mentioned can be gotten from an englufer cape +1 and you get the chance to absorb. See I still think it would be possible just it would be incredibly difficult to do on mnk. Player base is usually all about path of least resistance and honestly the path of least amount of set up is to just make these incredibly powerful items otherwise you have to get into very specific gearsets like whole sets that takes about as much work to get as to make an REM.

    At one point I was going to attempt to tank on mnk too just fyi, I have a stage 3 mnk relic that I still need to get around to building.

    To Urthdigger it would be a very impressive feat of skill if you were to tank like reisenjima t3s/angels/god/AV/reisenjima Helm nms on mnk. I noticed that you mentioned counter, problem with counter is that it has to pass an acc check which means you're not in pdt/mdt gear. You would probably need two sources of curing, which means another whm maybe? SE currently penalizes parties for having this type of outside the box thinking by increasing mob hp for extra party members.
    (0)

  8. #18
    Player Urthdigger's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Bastok
    Posts
    313
    Character
    Urthdigger
    World
    Fenrir
    Main Class
    MNK Lv 99
    Oh, I know it would be quite a feat if it were done. My initial point was basically that while SE clearly sees MNK as a tank (Almost every single gift enhances the job's defensive capabilities), and it does get kinda close on paper, in reality it's just plain not feasible due to some of the same reasons you need a RME PLD or RUN.

    I would LOVE to tank on it, I love MNK and counterattacks are my preferred thing to focus on in most games, but I really don't see it being possible except in the kind of content people breeze through solo.

    Basically, I feel that the current endgame that demands an Aegis for tanks likewise restricts what other tanks are possible.
    (1)
    Last edited by Urthdigger; 02-06-2016 at 04:45 AM.
    He once sold his soul to Promathia for a rare drop. He later won it back in a drinking contest, before beating up the twilight god for good measure.
    He's won dance-off trophies from the Republic of Bastok, the Duchy of Jeuno, and the Yagudo Theomilitary.
    He's won entire arguments with a single leer.
    He is the most interesting galka in the world.

  9. #19
    Player Aeron's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Posts
    137
    Character
    Lanselot
    World
    Asura
    Main Class
    PLD Lv 99
    Quote Originally Posted by Urthdigger View Post
    Oh, I know it would be quite a feat if it were done. My initial point was basically that while SE clearly sees MNK as a tank (Almost every single gift enhances the job's defensive capabilities), and it does get kinda close on paper, in reality it's just plain not feasible due to some of the same reasons you need a RME PLD or RUN.

    I would LOVE to tank on it, I love MNK and counterattacks are my preferred thing to focus on in most games, but I really don't see it being possible except in the kind of content people breeze through solo.

    Basically, I feel that the current endgame that demands an Aegis for tanks likewise restricts what other tanks are possible.
    So part of my suggestions were really based on the premise that aegis is not a requirement, but the amount of prep that you would have to do you might as well build an aegis because its easier on the whole party. Aegis is not hard to make I don't know why there is such and aversion to making something so beneficial. Take for example what I suggested getting the souveran +1 set for pld, its going to cost you in the ballpark of 300mil. You could make several aegis with that much gil.

    When I started playing mnk more when delve came out because I couldn't get into any parties as pld(delve1) I also noticed its tanking potential. I agree that it did mnk a disservice the gifts that it got. Maybe they felt that mnks offensive capabilities were already really good and that to not make it too powerful they had to give it something so they decided to do defensive. You have sparked my interest in mnk tanking though and im going to look into it more might be able to come up with some good suggestions.
    (0)

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