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  1. #1
    Player Mithlas's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2015
    Posts
    149
    Character
    Mithlas
    World
    Quetzalcoatl
    Main Class
    COR Lv 99

    Endgame Content Design

    Is there any current engdame content or NM that are designed around a PLD or RUN not having RME?

    I see that there are many ilvl shields, but they are pretty moot and no one gives them a glance or considers taking a PLD if he does not have Aegis or Ochain. Is that simply because all of the item level shields completely suck, or that content cannot be done without?
    (1)

  2. #2
    Player Kensagaku's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    652
    Character
    Kensagaku
    World
    Valefor
    Main Class
    DRG Lv 99
    It's neither, it's a case of a stubborn playerbase who expects that the user HAS to have these things. Given that RUN only has a single ergon and most do not have it, yet it tanks modestly well, it's not a NEED. Paladin has it a little rougher because Aegis is a large boost past the MDT cap, so people absolutely expect it to mitigate the damage and reduce how much support is needed. That's just a playerbase thing; I imagine a Paladin with a Priwen can do a good job, just gear for MDT and deal with a 50% cap instead of like a what, 90% one? (Not sure where it caps for MDT II, pardon). Ochain is a little more arguable given its block rate, but Priwen with Reprisal up is supposed to be better, to my knowledge.

    Either way, it's less than it's "needed" but more that players expect it, because they want to go with the absolute best safety net. It's the reason that melees are generally shunned for a MB strategy now; less support needed and "safer" because there's less people in the front lines.
    (1)
    [Kensagaku - formerly of Kujata] - http://www.ffxiah.com/player/Valefor/Kensagaku

  3. #3
    Player Aeron's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Posts
    137
    Character
    Lanselot
    World
    Asura
    Main Class
    PLD Lv 99
    So its kind or a double edge sword. If you don't want to make an REM but want to tank play run. If you only want to make one REM for pld make aegis. Kensagaku is correct that priwen is a better shield then ochain since in newer content you have to use reprisal on both to increase the block rate. Priwens block rate isnt as good as ochains but it negates more dmg due to having more defense so overall it negates more dmg.
    (0)

  4. #4
    Player Vinedrai's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Posts
    76
    Character
    Vinedrius
    World
    Bahamut
    Main Class
    BLU Lv 99
    Quote Originally Posted by Aeron View Post
    So its kind or a double edge sword. If you don't want to make an REM but want to tank play run. If you only want to make one REM for pld make aegis. Kensagaku is correct that priwen is a better shield then ochain since in newer content you have to use reprisal on both to increase the block rate. Priwens block rate isnt as good as ochains but it negates more dmg due to having more defense so overall it negates more dmg.
    loldefense Actually Ochain should mitigate more per hit for being a size 6 shield while Priwen is only size 3.
    (0)
    Last edited by Vinedrai; 01-31-2016 at 11:42 PM.

  5. #5
    Player Aeron's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Posts
    137
    Character
    Lanselot
    World
    Asura
    Main Class
    PLD Lv 99
    Quote Originally Posted by Vinedrai View Post
    loldefense Actually Ochain should mitigate more per hit for being a size 6 shield while Priwen is only size 3.
    Are you joking? Reading your post it sounds like you're making a statement, but then there's the loldefense so im not sure or not.

    If you were serious though Ochain doesn't mitigate more dmg over all then Priwen with reprisal up. due to the amount of def that Priwen has giving it the ability to block 88% of dmg on block to lvl126 mobs while Ochain only blocks 66% of dmg on block. Priwens block rate with reprisal up on lvl126 mobs is 90.63% while Ochains is 100%. the overall dmg mitigation by Priwen is 79.7 pdt, while Ochain overall dmg mitigation is 66 pdt.

    Seems perfectly fairly that a shield that you can get in 1hr basically is better then a shield that used to take months (I understand its considerably easier to make Ochain now) and if you went through the trouble of getting 1500 hmp and 60 dross. /sarcasm

    Credit for this information can be given to martel who ran these numbers.
    (0)
    Last edited by Aeron; 02-01-2016 at 01:20 AM.

  6. #6
    Player
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Posts
    1,542
    Quote Originally Posted by Mithlas View Post
    Is there any current engdame content or NM that are designed around a PLD or RUN not having RME?

    I see that there are many ilvl shields, but they are pretty moot and no one gives them a glance or considers taking a PLD if he does not have Aegis or Ochain. Is that simply because all of the item level shields completely suck, or that content cannot be done without?
    Any? Yeah most of the highest stuff pretty much need that. In theory you could possibly maybe get enough support to allow decent survivability without it... but adding more players causes hp to increase so dramatically that that can by itself make you fail. Not to mention you are shifting a burden onto gearing of the support namely getting those geos to have more potent spells. And your tank still might die because some of these nms are pretty brutal

    That said pup can offer similar levels of durability so that's also an option. At least on things that don't use tactics that make pets not useful (such as doom or adds going after popper instead of tank etc)
    (0)

  7. #7
    Player Eaglestrike's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Posts
    77
    Character
    Ladyofhonor
    World
    Asura
    Main Class
    THF Lv 99
    I've tanked Zitah and Ru'Aun t3's on my RUN without any trouble or Epeolatry (not even done the first 100 HP bayld lol). And I think at least one of the Reisenjima NM's is only truly dangerous because of doom, but I'm sure one day I'll tank it and find out for myself.
    (0)

  8. #8
    Player Urthdigger's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Bastok
    Posts
    313
    Character
    Urthdigger
    World
    Fenrir
    Main Class
    MNK Lv 99
    Speaking of tanking without an aegis/ochain/epeolatry, I'm curious about other jobs tanking as well. Namely, while gearing up MNK I can't help but notice that literally all of MNK's JP gifts (outside of a whopping -10 to delay and the obligatory att/acc boosts) involve guard and counter. Between those, Perfect Counter/Counterstance, and relatively easy access to -pdt% gear, it would seem to make a rather decent tank (and it did back in the abyssea days).

    Main problem though is magic damage taken. Wonder if that could be worked around, or does everything just toss out too much AoE spells nowadays?
    (0)
    He once sold his soul to Promathia for a rare drop. He later won it back in a drinking contest, before beating up the twilight god for good measure.
    He's won dance-off trophies from the Republic of Bastok, the Duchy of Jeuno, and the Yagudo Theomilitary.
    He's won entire arguments with a single leer.
    He is the most interesting galka in the world.

  9. #9
    Player Mithlas's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2015
    Posts
    149
    Character
    Mithlas
    World
    Quetzalcoatl
    Main Class
    COR Lv 99
    I think the majority of NMs nowadays all of some spamable form of magic AoE or enfeeble AoEs. I think that's one of the drawback to melees participating in endgame things. Probably why people prefer lolAegis
    (0)

  10. #10
    Player Urthdigger's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Bastok
    Posts
    313
    Character
    Urthdigger
    World
    Fenrir
    Main Class
    MNK Lv 99
    Pretty much. I mean, going /run can make it SOMEWHAT viable, if the monster solely sticks to a single element, but that's hardly ever the case. Gotta have that sweet -mdt%
    (0)
    He once sold his soul to Promathia for a rare drop. He later won it back in a drinking contest, before beating up the twilight god for good measure.
    He's won dance-off trophies from the Republic of Bastok, the Duchy of Jeuno, and the Yagudo Theomilitary.
    He's won entire arguments with a single leer.
    He is the most interesting galka in the world.

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