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Thread: Inundation

  1. #11
    Player Urmom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Songen View Post
    Did you remember to add another different type of weapon other than what was used already? if you use weapons types already used, the dmg will only increase by the normal SC increase variables
    Sorry I wasn't being clear. Those were increases over what I was getting without inundation. So yes it was definitely from inundation and I was definitely using different weapon types
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  2. #12
    Player Nyarlko's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Urmom View Post
    So did they change this or something? Cause finally dug up my testing a couple of days after it came out and while I did get a 1.2x increase on the first one but was 1.333x increase for the 2nd skillchain while the way this is written it would suggest it should have been 1.44. Which was what turned me off from it since each step had a smaller gain
    How old is this dataset/testing? Are you sure there haven't been any updates to the effects since then? Entirely possible that it was buffed at some point since it was added after all.
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  3. #13
    Player Urmom's Avatar
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    I think your questions are somewhat answered by the very first line you quoted
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  4. #14
    Player Nyarlko's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Urmom View Post
    I think your questions are somewhat answered by the very first line you quoted
    I don't know when it was added. ^^ So doesn't help me as a reference point..
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  5. #15
    Player Urmom's Avatar
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    Well I don't have exact dates either but the testing is basically the earliest it could've been done. Not sure what an exact date would get you unless you looking up update notes since then but the same search will pull up all the results including the first one. Which I just did and nope only change that has been made officially has been adding the scroll to another npc
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  6. #16
    Player Songen's Avatar
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    Refer to bg wiki inundation for further info on how 12.8% increase is attained, it doesn't show where numbers are floored however it'll explain.

    "example(Current WS dmg (5000dmg) x SC level multiplier 2.25 (Which is a 6th step double darkness or light (current SC dmg 11250) x Inundation level multiplier 6 (67500) = Final SC damage {67500)"
    you don't multiply the inundation with the SC multiplier, you multiply the dmg result of the SC multipler with the inundation multiplier which results in the final number being approximatly 12.8x the WS damage. the math in there has something wrong a little, but it explains the 12.8x
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  7. #17
    Player Nyarlko's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Songen View Post
    Refer to bg wiki inundation for further info on how 12.8% increase is attained, it doesn't show where numbers are floored however it'll explain.

    "example(Current WS dmg (5000dmg) x SC level multiplier 2.25 (Which is a 6th step double darkness or light (current SC dmg 11250) x Inundation level multiplier 6 (67500) = Final SC damage {67500)"
    you don't multiply the inundation with the SC multiplier, you multiply the dmg result of the SC multipler with the inundation multiplier which results in the final number being approximatly 12.8x the WS damage. the math in there has something wrong a little, but it explains the 12.8x
    BGwiki, like all wikis, are compilations of user submitted information (and subject to easily becoming out-of-date.) It's not "12.8%" btw, it's a 12.8x multiplier, which would be "1280%". You also are adding in skillchain damage/bonus, which is not included in the dev post..

    The way the dev post is worded, it implies that "a skillchain comprising all 15 weapon types will have a maximum bonus multiplier from Inundation of 12.8" and yes, a 15-step sc including every ws type would indeed have an unfloored multiplier of 1.2^14, or 12.83918465 according to my calculator. ^^;; The only issue I have with that is that, as far as I've ever seen or read, it's not actually possible to create a 15-step skillchain mechanics-wise. Given that, it's rather misleading to give us that number instead of the much more likely 1.2^5 / ~2.49x. (Messed up my math in the prior post. ^^;; A 6-step would be ^5 not ^6.) Even adding up the damage increases applied to each step don't get close to the 12.8, so further clarification would be needed in this case to prevent misinterpretation.
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  8. #18
    Player Songen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nyarlko View Post
    BGwiki, like all wikis, are compilations of user submitted information (and subject to easily becoming out-of-date.) It's not "12.8%" btw, it's a 12.8x multiplier, which would be "1280%". You also are adding in skillchain damage/bonus, which is not included in the dev post..

    The way the dev post is worded, it implies that "a skillchain comprising all 15 weapon types will have a maximum bonus multiplier from Inundation of 12.8" and yes, a 15-step sc including every ws type would indeed have an unfloored multiplier of 1.2^14, or 12.83918465 according to my calculator. ^^;; The only issue I have with that is that, as far as I've ever seen or read, it's not actually possible to create a 15-step skillchain mechanics-wise. Given that, it's rather misleading to give us that number instead of the much more likely 1.2^5 / ~2.49x. (Messed up my math in the prior post. ^^;; A 6-step would be ^5 not ^6.) Even adding up the damage increases applied to each step don't get close to the 12.8, so further clarification would be needed in this case to prevent misinterpretation.
    ~I didn't write "x" instead of "%", i apologise for the confusion however that was my fault for not double checking my spelling, my spelling/grammar isn't always good so you'll find small mistakes here and there.
    ~Camate didn't exactly word it right, but not in the way you mean, they simply put each part of the sentence in the wrong spot.

    Quote Originally Posted by Camate View Post
    Inundated by how Inundation works?

    I’ve seen data based on player testing, and I can verify that the 1.2x increase per weapon type used in the skillchain is indeed accurate. Including pets, there are 15 total types of weapons, which means that the maximum value that can be reached with Inundation is a 12.8x increase.
    allow me to realign it to make more sense:
    ~~Including pets, there are 15 total types of weapons,I’ve seen data based on player testing, and I can verify that the 1.2x increase per weapon type used in the skillchain is indeed accurate.which means that the maximum value that can be reached with Inundation is a 12.8x increase. ~~

    if you look at it like this, you can see that the referal to 15 WS types isn't what makes the 12.8%. infact, camate specificlly says "1.2x increase per weapon type used in the skillchain" so that would take it far beyond the 15 weapon skills.

    The "maximum value" which camate refers to is the maximum SC damage for that final SC set after performing 6 weapon skills and achieving 5 SCs, not the multiplier. every SC set prior to the final one is calculated at its own SC multiplier term and inundation multiplier term.

    The result is similar to magic damage where you calculate magic attack bonus in one term, then calculate magic burst in another term. you don't multiply magic attack with magic burst, you multiply the damage

    Magic attack (SC multiplier which comes from the current level of WS element such as light or double light and amount of WSs preformed prior to this point), magic burst (Inundation multiplier)

    automaton for example have their own inundation multipler (For their weapon skills) in a different term to rdm's inundation which comes from their SC attachment called speed loader. in which case if automaton closes the final WS of a 6 weapon type SC, they push the damage further.
    WS dmg x SC multiplier x inundation multiplier x automaton's inundation multiplier = final damage (without including all other special multipliers such as SC trait, SC gear, weather bonus, resists, etc)
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  9. #19
    Player Nyarlko's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Songen View Post
    ~I didn't write "x" instead of "%", i apologise for the confusion however that was my fault for not double checking my spelling, my spelling/grammar isn't always good so you'll find small mistakes here and there.
    ~Camate didn't exactly word it right, but not in the way you mean, they simply put each part of the sentence in the wrong spot.



    allow me to realign it to make more sense:
    ~~Including pets, there are 15 total types of weapons,I’ve seen data based on player testing, and I can verify that the 1.2x increase per weapon type used in the skillchain is indeed accurate.which means that the maximum value that can be reached with Inundation is a 12.8x increase. ~~

    if you look at it like this, you can see that the referal to 15 WS types isn't what makes the 12.8%. infact, camate specificlly says "1.2x increase per weapon type used in the skillchain" so that would take it far beyond the 15 weapon skills.
    There is nothing "beyond the 15 weapon skills." Inundation bonus only increases if the weapon type is different than any prior types that have been used in the same skillchain. As it appears to be a multiplicative term (in other words, starting with 1.0 for the first ws, multiply the previous result by 1.2 for each additional weapon type used in the skillchain,) you should be able to get the correct result with: 1.2^n, where n=(number of weapon types used in sc) -1.
    So a 15-step using every type for the "maximum" bonus should be: 1.2^14 = ~12.83 (which matches what Camate stated, assuming there's flooring involved somewhere to account for the .03~ remainder.)
    I am beyond confused as to what you are thinking is going on here. :/


    The "maximum value" which camate refers to is the maximum SC damage for that final SC set after performing 6 weapon skills and achieving 5 SCs, not the multiplier. every SC set prior to the final one is calculated at its own SC multiplier term and inundation multiplier term.

    The result is similar to magic damage where you calculate magic attack bonus in one term, then calculate magic burst in another term. you don't multiply magic attack with magic burst, you multiply the damage

    Magic attack (SC multiplier which comes from the current level of WS element such as light or double light and amount of WSs preformed prior to this point), magic burst (Inundation multiplier)

    automaton for example have their own inundation multipler (For their weapon skills) in a different term to rdm's inundation which comes from their SC attachment called speed loader. in which case if automaton closes the final WS of a 6 weapon type SC, they push the damage further.
    WS dmg x SC multiplier x inundation multiplier x automaton's inundation multiplier = final damage (without including all other special multipliers such as SC trait, SC gear, weather bonus, resists, etc)
    The only thing that Camate addressed, and the only thing relevant in this thread, is the damage bonus multiplier provided directly by Inundation. Any/all other sources of skillchain or damage related bonuses are not included. This has absolutely zero relation to any other terms in damage formulas (like MAB) and zero relation to any of the damage formulas themselves.

    I honestly do not know about the finer points on PUP, so I'll take your word on it being a separate term, but it's version (or any other interactions with any other effects) is not what matters here since we're talking about the RDM spell named "Inundation".

    Inundation all by itself is what Camate replied about, and it doesn't really appear that the numbers given are absolutely "wrong", but I have issues with how the info was presented.. I believe what we've been given is rather misleading and slightly deceitful as it's basically impossible to make the 15-step skillchain that would be required in order to reach the 12.8x bonus stated. In that case, the stated "max value" stated should have been what a 6-step should receive, perhaps with a disclaimer that there is no hard cap on the bonus, instead of the over-inflated value stated that makes Inundation sound much more powerful than it is.

    If I am mistaken and a 15-step skillchain is not prevented by basic combat mechanics, then I will stand corrected. ^^ Otherwise, my point stands and a dev post clarifying that the maximum effective bonus granted by Inundation is ~2.49x for a 6-step skillchain involving 6 of the 15 different weapon types along with official confirmation that the 15th type is indeed "pets".
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    Last edited by Nyarlko; 02-08-2017 at 09:19 AM.
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  10. #20
    Player Songen's Avatar
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    First thing in case there is misunderstanding. 1.2x is 120% increase, 2.4x is 240%increase, 3.6x is 360% increase
    In the sense that camate could have been explained more clearly, yes, it woulda helped alot, however what your doing is nit picking specifics which have already been researched by players and confirmed by SE themselves.

    Below are links to some the forums (I hate researching again things i researched a long time ago and seen first hand)with some pic's of weapon skills and SCs (So you can see for yourself) of the ENGLISH research which if you pay attention and actually read the chat with the pic's and what level the skillchain is at and do the numbers how i have explained before (Dmg + SC multiplier+inundation multiplier) you get the result with some variable's which is normal due to resists,weather,gear, monster level penalty's, etc), (This excludes the japanese research however reflects some japanese research since i found some info during my research today which matchs the english research)

    Beware this is only 2 links out of a much larger research section done by players, don't think this amounts to everything everyone knows
    http://www.ffxiah.com/forum/topic/46...spell/#3042612
    http://www.ffxiah.com/forum/topic/38...ng/85/#3072974

    Looking at those pics, doing the math, doing the calculation, you will see the 12.8x mentioned by camate IS the final SC damage resulting from a full set of inundation and SCs

    SE has made mistakes on how they have worded things, and on multiple locations i saw themselves correct themselves which is how they worded it only, very few are direct calculation mistakes, and while it can be confusing sometimes.

    The main thing to keep in mind is: they confirmed the player data resulting from hours of player researching and calculating data from different sources and different means, even small bits like those 2 pic's along offer so much information.
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