Quality of life suggestion^^ Experience toggle!

[Malatyr]

One fairly simple, if not perfect solution is:

-ding 75
-switch to limit points mode until skills are capped
-switch back to EXP mode, ding 76
-rinse & repeat

Keeps your skills capped after 75 +earns you some merits. Personally, I never thought it was too difficult to cap skills once I hit 99 (what with trusts, sparks +skill gain armor, Sakura, GoV skill boost, RoV skill gain) but if it's super important to you might want to give it a try.

[Bluestar2kx]

These are all good ideas, don't get me wrong, but it's still skirting around the issue I'm bringing up. I'm not trying to find ways you can do it instead, I'm trying to suggest to dev's a way to please a fair sum of people. Those like me, who don't want to go from 1 to 99 in 2hrs, those people who wish to have a some what old school leveling party, those who want the old 75 cap days back, and maybe a few others I'm missing. These people are not just a few, there's actually a lot of them, and some of this is why some of them don't play anymore.

I realize the time and budget is limited, but at the same time, the system i'm asking for is already there in a form, Malatyr mentioned it.

The merit system stops all experience and converts it to limit points, so why not duplicate that system, and write it to work for lv 10+ like sync does (make it compatible with sync of course), but instead of converting exp to limit points, it's just lost without being connected to merits, an extra layer I guess.

Would cut development time in half, and just add an option in the status page to switch experience on and off, or a / command.


I also realize that the further you are from cap the more likely to get +.4 and 5, but if the mob doesn't live a sufficient amount of time it reduces the rate at which you gain skill before you kill it, and you'll still be damaged by it draining trust NPC magic. Tho i guess another way around is to take a lv 1 weapon (if applicable) and skillup with that using only trusts that won't attack. But to me, it's still just finding ways around what should just be an upfront thing: switch off exp, it's really simple.

[YosemiteYogorockBlondelle]

These are all good ideas, don't get me wrong, but it's still skirting around the issue I'm bringing up. I'm not trying to find ways you can do it instead, I'm trying to suggest to dev's a way to please a fair sum of people. Those like me, who don't want to go from 1 to 99 in 2hrs, those people who wish to have a some what old school leveling party, those who want the old 75 cap days back, and maybe a few others I'm missing. These people are not just a few, there's actually a lot of them, and some of this is why some of them don't play anymore.

I realize the time and budget is limited, but at the same time, the system i'm asking for is already there in a form, Malatyr mentioned it.

The merit system stops all experience and converts it to limit points, so why not duplicate that system, and write it to work for lv 10+ like sync does (make it compatible with sync of course), but instead of converting exp to limit points, it's just lost without being connected to merits, an extra layer I guess.

Would cut development time in half, and just add an option in the status page to switch experience on and off, or a / command.


I also realize that the further you are from cap the more likely to get +.4 and 5, but if the mob doesn't live a sufficient amount of time it reduces the rate at which you gain skill before you kill it, and you'll still be damaged by it draining trust NPC magic. Tho i guess another way around is to take a lv 1 weapon (if applicable) and skillup with that using only trusts that won't attack. But to me, it's still just finding ways around what should just be an upfront thing: switch off exp, it's really simple.

#1. So you would rather waste more time in a game leveling a job then doing more stuff in real life? #2. So in your mind can you give us all an exact rough estimate across all servers for large numbers in groups of people who you are thinking really wanting this to change to waste their precious real life hours wasting even more of their real life away grinding for tons upon tons of even more hours leveling of old times? #3. It's as everyone's been saying it's always been the case even in times of old where you would always out parse your skill gain rates compared to your job level's even in the times of old day's exp parties which was why once upon time there were even skill up parties created back then to catch those skills up to be capped again. These are also very validated points but you remember times change where you keep pressing forward and eventually everything is going to have past nostalgia memory to it even in real life where you can't just go back to the way things once were so you have to keep reminding oneself to keep-on moving into pressing yourself forward instead of backwards again to bring back those lost years that are never going to exist again. Once again these are all just very true valid points to realize but all great to be up for a great discussion topic in chat's when your not having anything else to chat about coming to mind as for myself I even lost the train of thought of where I was going with this since from the very beginning of writing this thus ending it here for now. ;-)

[Moppet]

You know, it's not required to nay-say every suggestion made on these forums into the ground.

It depends on the structure of the code whether or not this would take very little or a moderate amount of development time, something we have no idea about.

[Bluestar2kx]

#1. So you would rather waste more time in a game leveling a job then doing more stuff in real life?

Yes. I play to have fun, but if I'm already done in a few hours, what fun did i have?
Leveling for me is part of the fun, I'm not a huge endgame person, nor is getting every job to cap my goal like it maybe for others.
For me, what i do on the path between 1 and 99 is just as important as what i do with myself at 99^^

Real life does get in the way quite often as I'm a SAHM. But the time i get to play, I want to enjoy myself, it doesn't matter if I get it done, it matters if I had fun doing it.

But keep in mind, this option does not impact anyone who doesn't wish to use it, as the effects are only for the person turning it on, not for anyone else.

#2. So in your mind can you give us all an exact rough estimate across all servers for large numbers in groups of people who you are thinking really wanting this to change to waste their precious real life hours wasting even more of their real life away grinding for tons upon tons of even more hours leveling of old times?

You know that's impossible, that kind of question is used to automatically dismiss arguments in favor of something, because the answer can not be obtained.
However, I can speculate. A lot of people want the old days back, others want old experience parties back, a lot of people left because those died. It's logical to assume a rough 20-30% of the past and current base combined, would be receptive to such an option. It's been mentioned here and on other forums about people wanting 75 cap servers. It's not just a few people who seek that.

I don't want the old days back as they were, I want options for today that may let me mimic those times in a way I can control for my time available, enjoyment, or just that specific job.

#3. It's as everyone's been saying it's always been the case even in times of old where you would always out parse your skill gain rates compared to your job level's even in the times of old day's exp parties which was why once upon time there were even skill up parties created back then to catch those skills up to be capped again.

Thats not entirely true though.
Back in the old days, experience gains per kill were very low, I think they soft capped at 200 per IT+ kill, only chains and rings let you go higher for a short time, and experience required per level was also higher back in the day until it was changed, I think in 2005? or 06? Something like that.

Skills were harder to cap yes, but parties also took much longer, and players were comparatively much weaker then an equivalent today. The average PUG lasted about 2-3 hours, in which you might have gained 2 levels, fighting IT mobs. In general almost all your combat skills and half your magic could stay capped fairly easily. With exceptions to Guard, parry, enhancing, summoning, and throwing, tho the later 2 because they weren't used the same way they were later patched to, throwing esp until Daken. Tho as an extra note, healing could be a pita, but enfeebling, elemental, dark and divine weren't too bad, esp if you had a good ninja tank and could flash when shadows couldn't be gotten back up.

But overall, keeping your skills up wasn't too bad back then because you generally fought hard monsters for extended periods. A single fight could last over a minute, instead of 30s, depending on party makeup and mob type/level.

Skillup parties we're mostly for those waay behind for some reason, like those power leveled, or for those leveling an entirely new weapon, like sam using polearm, or rangers trying to keep marksmanship up with archery, or a monk or ninja working on guard/parry.

These are also very validated points but you remember times change where you keep pressing forward and eventually everything is going to have past nostalgia memory to it even in real life where you can't just go back to the way things once were so you have to keep reminding oneself to keep-on moving into pressing yourself forward instead of backwards again to bring back those lost years that are never going to exist again. Once again these are all just very true valid points to realize but all great to be up for a great discussion topic in chat's when your not having anything else to chat about coming to mind as for myself I even lost the train of thought of where I was going with this since from the very beginning of writing this thus ending it here for now. ;-)

I'm not afraid to move forward despite that change is nervousness, but I think that goes for most humans, tho some react more... less then civil ways then most people.

I like the changes FFXI has (minus the massive uncontrollable exp gains), unlike many who left over aby, adoulin and ilevel gear (tho i was on break for personal and financial reasons between 2010 and 12, but I've not turned away from them just because they were there. Though i admit, I'm the kind of women who spends more of her time in Zilart/vanilla zones then i do in Escha, and Adoulin, but I do go there for different purposes. I also only have 6 lv 99 jobs between 3 characters, and i retired one character for Cymopoleia. So i'm not exactly a faster or wide leveler.

But that doesn't mean we can't mimic the old days in reasonable ways for those who want them, it's little inconvenience for others who don't.

[bungiefanNA]

There aren't massive uncontrollable EXP gains. You can choose not to have most of them except the global doubling of mobs (so Even Match gives 200 EXP) and the double EXP campaign, which makes them give 400 EXP. If you avoid using RoE, EXP Trusts, Rings, and doing Rhapsodies, then you stay at that low EXP gain. If you don't upgrade your equipment, then monsters can live long enough for battles to give skillup events.

Also, if you really don't want EXP, then Call For Help on the monster to make it not give EXP. That nullifies it for everything. There's your global "disable EXP" button. That's how people dealt with it in Abyssea to make sure they didn't break the EXP chain when an NM popped or roamed into the camp, or someone accidentally got aggro.

As for changing it for the people that have left the game, SE isn't trying to get new players anymore, or get a massive amount of people to return. That's why they stopped major patches. If all the QoL changes and the notifications that FFXI was getting its final storyline didn't already bring them back, they're probably not ever coming back. With how many MMOs are on the market now, it is hard to try to reclaim someone that has moved on to a newer one. It makes you sound like the clingy ex-girlfriend that just won't let you be.

The current leveling rate in FFXI is similar to that of offline FF games. You shouldn't need months to level a single job, which is why they made the changes. A long grind to actually be able to reach events with other people is not what people are looking for in an MMORPG nowadays. Now you grind for equipment doing whatever endgame is current. Reintroducing the slow level grind wouldn't bring people back, as many people that left when they raised the level cap with Abyssea didn't leave because leveling became faster, but because after 6.5 years of level 75 cap and a ton of horizontal equipment progression, that 6.5 years of endgame rewards were obsoleted, by equipment that was nearly free (the cruor equipment). We've now been at 99 about 4.5 years, and 119 for about 2.5. When Adoulin released iLevel equipment, it obsoleted all the Voidwatch equipment people had farmed during Abyssea. SE went for vertical gear progression, with new content obsoleting old content rewards, for a while when Abyssea came out, and they've only recently gone back to horizontal progression. FFXIV is almost entirely vertical progression, since you can't do horizontal well without allowing gear swapping. SE changing their mind after staying on that for so long is what drove people away.

[Stuzey]

It's funny, one thing I've noticed from playing XI, is everyone has different views on what makes the game fun. We had a guy in an old linkshell who loved to fish, he was a friendly chap, didn't do a lot of events, was never bothered about gear, but had a passion for fishing, morning, day or night.

Some people just love to exp, it's fair enough, how they spend their time is up to them, you've offered some advice on how to reduce exp gain, which is good.

I had an idea, which should be easy to implement, maybe a food, which decreases exp gain (halves it, maybe more?) and increases skill ups

It's just an idea, if it increases the enjoyment of the game for some and isn't a drain on the developers, why not.

[Pups323]

To test the relevance of this (more like a weekend observation):
I was leveling my geom from 1 to 99:
1-50 i rarely if ever capped elemental magic.
50-99 i capped ele magic at every level, and had enough extra mobs to start working on geo/handbell

By 99 i was capped ele, and ~350/377 for geo and handbell. Granted its not 'all' of my magic capped (still need enfeeble and dark), but it just proves a point, this is only my second level 99 character, and i have all 9 RoE key items, so while 1-50 you might level faster than you skill up, from 50-99 there is so much extra time to cap there would be no need to turn exp off at each level to cap skills. If i wanted slower kills i could go from 5 trusts to 3 or 2, and then i would have for sure capped every skill.

The issue is that at low levels you get 2-5k a kill, which means its 1-2 kills per level, but 50+ your getting 2-5k a kill still...but now you need 7-10 kills per level. With all of the skill up items/food/key items, 7-10 mobs is more than enough for pretty much everything. The only skills that will be an issue are enhancing, and maybe divine since there are so few spells to use.