Post-RoZ jobs on Relic Weapons

[scaevola]

Time to beat a dead horse!

With the upcoming update to legendary weapon DMG, the time seems riper than ever to add post-RoZ jobs to Relic weapons. As it stands, a 35% buff to DMG and 50% buff to relic/empyrean bonus stats will put legendary weapons on top for most if not all jobs and setups, and leaving post-RoZ jobs without a shorter way to obtain a superior weapon (that will still usually be inferior to the Mythic weapon they can already obtain, if balance is the concern) seems pretty unfair.

I think the buff to legendaries is a great idea in general. I just wish it were something all jobs could benefit from equally.

[Alhanelem]

They will never add new jobs to the relic weapons. Their specific solution was to introduce new weapon sets that included later jobs.

[scaevola]

I am aware that was their solution, yes.

It is a bad solution, given what the creation of different types of legendary weapons involves and what the weapons themselves actually do.

[Rubicant82]

SE has mentioned several times that the relic weapons were never balanced properly for the newer jobs, which honestly if you look at the weapons.... they are okay for the jobs that can use them, but none of the job not on them would really benefit from them. Mythic/Empy/Eragon weapons are much better for the newer jobs, and the new weapons are going to be even more powerful then what they are now. So you can beat a dead horse all you want, but I think this dead horse is long decayed to dust. :3

[scaevola]

The point is not that Relics would be better than Mythics for the jobs that can't currently use them, but that they are several orders of magnitude easier to make, and after the buff post-RoZ jobs will be severely handicapped by not having access to them as a way to remain competitive without resorting to a Mythic.

This didn't matter before when Relics were weak and non-legendary weapons were comparable or superior.

[Atomic_Skull]

SE has mentioned several times that the relic weapons were never balanced properly for the newer jobs, which honestly if you look at the weapons.... they are okay for the jobs that can use them, but none of the job not on them would really benefit from them. Mythic/Empy/Eragon weapons are much better for the newer jobs, and the new weapons are going to be even more powerful then what they are now. So you can beat a dead horse all you want, but I think this dead horse is long decayed to dust. :3

Yep pretty much that, everything that makes Mandau such a good weapon for THF even in the face of Ipetam etc would be broken on DNC, even more so if they buff it's damage. They'd have to gimp it to keep it sane on DNC and that would end up hurting the other jobs that can use it. Better to just leave DNC off it and avoid the whole mess.

And hasn't DNC stolen enough things from THF already? Promoting DNC to A+ rank dagger while leaving accuracy bonus in place and giving them more native dual wield was bad enough. Leave THF alone for a change.

[scaevola]

I would ask you to explain what about mandau is specifically better for DNC than THF, but that would distract us from the fact that not putting post-roz jobs on relics will kill them off.

I am a non-mythic DNC. When this goes live, my options are to make a mythic, switch to thf and finish mandau in two weeks, or just resign myself to being 20 DMG behind with enchufla.

[Atomic_Skull]

I would ask you to explain what about mandau is specifically better for DNC than THF

It's more the fact that DNC is already significantly better than THF and giving them Mandau would just be lunacy. Specifically extremely low delay for it's DMG +40 attack and occasional triple damage are what makes it good.

I'd rather see it balanced for THF than DNC, if they add DNC to it it will be balanced with DNC in mind as that is the most powerful job that could use it and that will catch THF in the crossfire much as the TP nerf and countless other things have in years past.

I fail to see how not giving post ROZ jobs access to relics will "kill them off"

[scaevola]

It's more the fact that DNC is already significantly better than THF and giving them Mandau would just be lunacy.

But DNC having Terpsichore, which is dramatically stronger and will be after the update, is fine? If not, should mythics be nerfed?

Specifically extremely low delay for it's DMG +40 attack and occasional triple damage are what makes it good.

1) It's not good. That's why it's being updated.

2) That is why it WAS good, before the DMG started dragging behind non-legendary alternatives. It was that good when it had DMG comparable to non-legendary alternatives; now it'll have substantially more damage than those alternatives, too. The gap between legendaries and non-legendaries will be far greater than it's ever been.

I'd rather see it balanced for THF than DNC, if they add DNC to it it will be balanced with DNC in mind as that is the most powerful job that could use it and that will catch THF in the crossfire much as the TP nerf and countless other things have in years past.

It's got RDM on it, too; is Mercy Stroke the magic bullet melee RDM has been missing all these years?

You aren't seriously going to argue the job spread on relics, established as it was TWELVE YEARS AGO, has any bearing on the present, are you?

I fail to see how not giving post ROZ jobs access to relics will "kill them off"

It will kill them off because I can use all my DNC gear for THF and be back in the game in two weeks. Major balance updates like this have been killing jobs since forever. Remember the WS update last year? Don't see too many WARs these days, do you?

[Atomic_Skull]

Updated stats for Excalibur from the stream:

Damage 162, Delay 233 Accuracy +60 "something" +186 (all four weapons including the aeonic sword that were shown have this stat) sword skill and parrying skill +268, magic accuracy +242.

PLD/RDM. ilevel 119 (aeonics are ilev 119 also)


So it appears as though no post RoZ jobs are being added to the relics


Is the rest follow this pattern Mandau should be something like damage 121 / delay 176