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  1. #1
    Player Ulth's Avatar
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    Dec 2013
    Posts
    578
    Character
    Andrewviii
    World
    Valefor
    Main Class
    THF Lv 99

    Getting upstaged by Nanaa Mihgo

    So lately I've been needing some crafting mats that are best farmed with despoil, wyvern scales for instance. I go Thief and summon Nanaa Mihgo as well as a bard and red mage trust. Now I have a 5 minute cooldown on despoil, however with capped magic haste and my fast cast set my recast on summoning Nanaa Mihgo is under a minute. So while I have to wait every 5 minutes to use my despoil, a thf trust has me beat.

    As it stand players can already despoil pretty much every minute or so even without being thf. I think it's only fair actual thfs get their despoil timer dropped down to 1 minute.
    (3)

  2. #2
    Player Daisansha's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2015
    Posts
    32
    Character
    Daisansha
    World
    Leviathan
    Main Class
    THF Lv 99
    Quote Originally Posted by Ulth View Post
    So lately I've been needing some crafting mats that are best farmed with despoil, wyvern scales for instance. I go Thief and summon Nanaa Mihgo as well as a bard and red mage trust. Now I have a 5 minute cooldown on despoil, however with capped magic haste and my fast cast set my recast on summoning Nanaa Mihgo is under a minute. So while I have to wait every 5 minutes to use my despoil, a thf trust has me beat.

    As it stand players can already despoil pretty much every minute or so even without being thf. I think it's only fair actual thfs get their despoil timer dropped down to 1 minute.
    Uh, no. Nanaa Mihgo has a 5 minute timer on her despoil. You dismissing her and casting a new one is the equivalent of getting a completely new THF (player) in your party. Your request for a player to have a 1-minute despoil timer because of this is illogical.
    (0)

  3. #3
    Player Hoshi's Avatar
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    Mar 2011
    Location
    Windurstian
    Posts
    456
    Character
    Hoshiku
    World
    Asura
    Main Class
    RNG Lv 99
    I see your logic about the new thief thing but if any player can resummon Nanaa Mihgo once every minute and get 5 wyvern scales whereas a thief main can only get 1 wyvern scale per 5 minutes then there is something wrong. I guess arguably the thief who continually resummons Nanaa Mihgo gets 6 wyvern scales to the normal player's 5 scales. Perhaps the more fair answer would be to make it so that Nanaa Mihgo's timers keep ticking regardless of when she is resummoned.
    (0)

  4. #4
    Player Daisansha's Avatar
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    Aug 2015
    Posts
    32
    Character
    Daisansha
    World
    Leviathan
    Main Class
    THF Lv 99
    Quote Originally Posted by Hoshi View Post
    I see your logic about the new thief thing but if any player can resummon Nanaa Mihgo once every minute and get 5 wyvern scales whereas a thief main can only get 1 wyvern scale per 5 minutes then there is something wrong. I guess arguably the thief who continually resummons Nanaa Mihgo gets 6 wyvern scales to the normal player's 5 scales. Perhaps the more fair answer would be to make it so that Nanaa Mihgo's timers keep ticking regardless of when she is resummoned.
    There are a few things that are unfair about trusts... for instance you can be tanking a mob and be charmed, but trust tanks can't, there are trusts that are impossible to damage, some have abilities we don't, etc.

    If we are going to demand that one unfairness be fixed, then we might as well demand all unfairness be fixed. Personally, I don't see SE going to the trouble. They are just meant to aid us as a means to counteract the dwindling population. There was bound to be some unfairness associated due to the rules of NPCs and attaching them to casting them of a spell.

    Also, since dismissing and recasting for a 1 minute despoil is a trick, a player can do the same thing. They can go change their job and rechange it back to THF for a reset of despoil timer... you will have to warp to a place to be able to change your job, while inconvenient, it is possible.
    (0)
    Last edited by Daisansha; 11-08-2015 at 01:19 AM.

  5. #5
    Player Ulth's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Posts
    578
    Character
    Andrewviii
    World
    Valefor
    Main Class
    THF Lv 99
    Quote Originally Posted by Daisansha View Post
    Uh, no. Nanaa Mihgo has a 5 minute timer on her despoil. You dismissing her and casting a new one is the equivalent of getting a completely new THF (player) in your party. Your request for a player to have a 1-minute despoil timer because of this is illogical.
    It's not illogical. The precedent set by the developers is trusts are not meant to out perform real players. As it stands now a person using a thief trust can despoil more often than an actual thief player. My solution to the problem is to let the player despoil as often as a person using a trust.

    What is illogical is your reasoning that it's okay because re-summoning a trust is equivalent to finding a whole new player to replace it. Now do you have to stretch a lot before doing that much mental gymnastics?
    (0)

  6. #6
    Player Daisansha's Avatar
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    Aug 2015
    Posts
    32
    Character
    Daisansha
    World
    Leviathan
    Main Class
    THF Lv 99
    Quote Originally Posted by Ulth View Post
    It's not illogical. The precedent set by the developers is trusts are not meant to out perform real players. As it stands now a person using a thief trust can despoil more often than an actual thief player. My solution to the problem is to let the player despoil as often as a person using a trust.

    What is illogical is your reasoning that it's okay because re-summoning a trust is equivalent to finding a whole new player to replace it. Now do you have to stretch a lot before doing that much mental gymnastics?
    It is illogical, you just fail at being able to see why even though I clearly stated why. And you are wrong at developers setting trusts not able to out perform real players. For one, Nanaa has a higher despoil success rate than players, another is that there are trusts that can't even take damage (name one player that is immune to all damage... you can't), and yet another is that trusts can't be charmed.

    Your second paragraph does not prove what I said is illogical.

    I understand why you want to do a personal attack against me, because I proved your reasoning behind your request illogical... but it is a logical fallacy to do so. Grow up and attack what I say instead.
    (2)

  7. #7
    Player Catmato's Avatar
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    Mar 2011
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    608
    Wait, you actually get the items that Nanaa Mihgo despoils?
    (0)

  8. #8
    Player Ulth's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Posts
    578
    Character
    Andrewviii
    World
    Valefor
    Main Class
    THF Lv 99
    Quote Originally Posted by Daisansha View Post
    It is illogical, you just fail at being able to see why even though I clearly stated why. And you are wrong at developers setting trusts not able to out perform real players. For one, Nanaa has a higher despoil success rate than players, another is that there are trusts that can't even take damage (name one player that is immune to all damage... you can't), and yet another is that trusts can't be charmed.

    Your second paragraph does not prove what I said is illogical.

    I understand why you want to do a personal attack against me, because I proved your reasoning behind your request illogical... but it is a logical fallacy to do so. Grow up and attack what I say instead.
    I didn't think I needed to disprove what you said. It's pretty obvious that the 3 second cast time of a summon is not equivalent to shouting for a player to be replaced every minute. I didn't need to explain that one is less than five did I?

    I also think it's funny how often people try and hide behind logical fallacies nowadays. It's basically the tactic of calling someone who isn't a troll a troll in hopes of discrediting them. Also I don't mean to get all meta on you but calling something a logical fallacy that isn't a logical fallacy is a logical fallacy. Just because I find your counter argument laughable does not mean I'm personally attacking you.

    As for me being wrong about the developer's precedent they actually stated on the Japaneses forums recently that they don't want players to opt to use trusts over actual players. The trusts that are immune to damage do little to nothing, and they can't be charmed because they are treated like pets. Pets can't be charmed either, and die when their master dies or gets charmed.
    (0)

  9. #9
    Player Hoshi's Avatar
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    Mar 2011
    Location
    Windurstian
    Posts
    456
    Character
    Hoshiku
    World
    Asura
    Main Class
    RNG Lv 99
    Quote Originally Posted by Catmato View Post
    Wait, you actually get the items that Nanaa Mihgo despoils?
    I haven't done it but I heard that the items she despoils appear in your inventory. So pretty nice if true.
    (0)

  10. #10
    Player Ulth's Avatar
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    Dec 2013
    Posts
    578
    Character
    Andrewviii
    World
    Valefor
    Main Class
    THF Lv 99
    Quote Originally Posted by Hoshi View Post
    I haven't done it but I heard that the items she despoils appear in your inventory. So pretty nice if true.
    It is true. I've used her to farm stuff before.
    (0)

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