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  1. #11
    Player Ahrana's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    69
    Character
    Ahrana
    World
    Cerberus
    Main Class
    SCH Lv 96
    Quote Originally Posted by Peacekeeper View Post
    Capped BLM gear: [also includes MAB traits] (to my knowledge)
    Without Sorc ring: MAB +92 INT +47
    With Sorc ring: MAB +102 INT +40
    BLM Gear

    Capped SCH gear: (again to my knowledge including /rdm or /blm MAB trait, and Ebullience)
    MAB +100 INT +50
    SCH Gear
    It's a little disengenious to show fictious MAB/int numbers when the real point of your compairson is the 1.3 multiplier scholar get when they use ebullience with their AF3+2 hat. Take away that and you remove ~23% of the scholar "stats," while the black mage has all those stats under every situation. If scholars used ebullience on every single nuke, drain, and aspir they'd run out of strats extremely quickly. Additionally, if black mages wanted that damage they could sub scholar and get a 1.2 damage multiplier.

    Just some other notes:
    1. The black mage setup has more magic critical hit rate.
    2. They've been given two of the most effective job abilities for survival, breaking the "glass cannon" mold.
    3. Blm's have AoE nukes, and AM/AM2 spells (which also means they have double the Abyssea green triggers).
    4. Scholars only have one enemy targeted unique spell line, which means they're one of the first jobs to get cut from voidwatch fights.

    tldr;
    Blackmages are kings of the magic damage hill right now, scholars are on the verge of lolsch.
    (0)

  2. #12
    Player Peacekeeper's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    7
    Character
    Peacekeeper
    World
    Siren
    Main Class
    PLD Lv 99
    The main point I was trying to make, while all your points do hold true, is that IMO a sch should never outnuke a blm "nuke for nuke" not just in general or anything else, why should the ability of a hybrid class allow it to be superior to the specialty class? Also, not sure if subbing sch for Ebullience was your intended reasoning for adding the 1.2 damage multiplier, that stratagem is level 55, so it's not possible for blms to attain.

    I guess I'm just used to schs who try to "play blm" all the time, it may be slightly biased but I feel if any "nuking" advantage over blm is taken away from sch, the schs I deal with would be more apt to play "sch" instead of "blm" ie: swapping between schools as needed, curing, using jobs specific spells etc.

    Also, I don't mean to portray all schs in such light, but there are many (as in other jobs/situations) who really only try to play a "superior blm" and to me, that's not what a sch is supposed to be.
    (1)
    Last edited by Peacekeeper; 08-08-2011 at 11:21 AM.

  3. #13
    Player Darkwizardzin's Avatar
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    Mar 2011
    Posts
    155
    Quote Originally Posted by Peacekeeper View Post
    The main point I was trying to make, while all your points do hold true, is that IMO a sch should never outnuke a blm "nuke for nuke" not just in general or anything else, why should the ability of a hybrid class allow it to be superior to the specialty class? Also, not sure if subbing sch for Ebullience was your intended reasoning for adding the 1.2 damage multiplier, that stratagem is level 55, so it's not possible for blms to attain.

    I guess I'm just used to schs who try to "play blm" all the time, it may be slightly biased but I feel if any "nuking" advantage over blm is taken away from sch, the schs I deal with would be more apt to play "sch" instead of "blm" ie: swapping between schools as needed, curing, using jobs specific spells etc.

    Also, I don't mean to portray all schs in such light, but there are many (as in other jobs/situations) who really only try to play a "superior blm" and to me, that's not what a sch is supposed to be.
    The thing is yea sch can nuke higher then a blm... but thanks to elemental celerity there spells take longer to cast so they take longer to deal damage (unless they use Alacrity .. but using 2 Stratagems on 1 nuke isn't productive).

    You also have to take into account that they don't have enimty douse or mana wall so there nuking is also limited by hate issues while blm is not. Yes a sch can out nuke a blm but blms have an overall better time with dealing magic damage then sch does.
    (0)

  4. #14
    Player Darkwizardzin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    155
    Quote Originally Posted by Rubicant82 View Post
    As fun as that all sounds... I've been playing BLM sense NA release, and I had three major gripes 1 was no real dmg mitigation unless you had /nin /whm /rdm, and two massive hate generation. Now both of those were satisfied as of late with new JAs. But what I really am upset about is not having black magic spells like Dread Spikes, and Drain II, and what about casting time? If I have a Elemental Magic skill of 401* ( with gear and merits) then I would hope that elemental magic would cast faster... Because lets face it waiting 20-30 seconds for that Flood or Quake to cast on a Abyssea mob hoping that it doesn't ready a move at the last second is really annoying. SO! what I would like to see from SE is either a latent fast cast like ability for ONLY elemental magic, or a JA that gives us 5 min of reduces casting time.
    ...Im gonna guess you never saw that blms got elemental celerity.
    (0)

  5. #15
    Player Peacekeeper's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    7
    Character
    Peacekeeper
    World
    Siren
    Main Class
    PLD Lv 99
    Again my point is missed, I'm not discounting the fact that BLM has all those very useful abilities, I have stated very clearly, a HYBRID job should NEVER, EVER outdo a SPECIALTY job, in that specific SPECIALTY. I'm not trying to compare the entirety of the jobs against one another, I'm trying to say what I have now said three times, very clearly.
    (0)

  6. #16
    Player Darkwizardzin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    155
    Quote Originally Posted by Peacekeeper View Post
    Again my point is missed, I'm not discounting the fact that BLM has all those very useful abilities, I have stated very clearly, a HYBRID job should NEVER, EVER outdo a SPECIALTY job, in that specific SPECIALTY. I'm not trying to compare the entirety of the jobs against one another, I'm trying to say what I have now said three times, very clearly.
    .....Your view of "outdo" is very narrow. You think that because a sch can do alittle more damage then a blm can with 1 nuke that means sch is outdoing the blms job at nuking conpletely... that isn't true. Thanks to enmity douse a blm can nuke twice as much then a sch can before getting near the top of the hate list in a fight.

    Once you get near the top of the hate list... your ability to do damage without puting yourself (and others depending on your postion and the monster your fighting) in danger becomes very low.... so already blms are doing a ton more damage in that regard. Plus we have mana wall so even if we mistakenly get at the top of the hate list we will have an easyer time living until were no longer at the top... sch will not have this advantage. To top it all off thanks to elemental celerity we cast faster then them so we can deal damage faster then they can. (unless as I said before they use Alacrity .. but using 2 Stratagems on 1 nuke isn't productive and is a waste of a charge)

    If you only look at it on a nuke to nuke baises... you will never see that sch is weaker in the nuking area then blm is. It may be your opinion that sch should never ever be able to out damage a blm on spell... but I (like many others) don't share it and from the looks of it nether does SE.
    (0)

  7. #17
    Player Bubeeky's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Windurst
    Posts
    328
    Character
    Bubeeky
    World
    Carbuncle
    Main Class
    WHM Lv 92
    Quote Originally Posted by Darkwizardzin View Post
    .....Your view of "outdo" is very narrow. You think that because a sch can do alittle more damage then a blm can with 1 nuke that means sch is outdoing the blms job at nuking conpletely... that isn't true. Thanks to enmity douse a blm can nuke twice as much then a sch can before getting near the top of the hate list in a fight.

    Once you get near the top of the hate list... your ability to do damage without puting yourself (and others depending on your postion and the monster your fighting) in danger becomes very low.... so already blms are doing a ton more damage in that regard. Plus we have mana wall so even if we mistakenly get at the top of the hate list we will have an easyer time living until were no longer at the top... sch will not have this advantage. To top it all off thanks to elemental celerity we cast faster then them so we can deal damage faster then they can. (unless as I said before they use Alacrity .. but using 2 Stratagems on 1 nuke isn't productive and is a waste of a charge)

    If you only look at it on a nuke to nuke baises... you will never see that sch is weaker in the nuking area then blm is. It may be your opinion that sch should never ever be able to out damage a blm on spell... but I (like many others) don't share it and from the looks of it nether does SE.
    SCH should never be able to outnuke us blms, at least on a nuke to nuke basis...the benefit of specializing in black/offensive magic is that we're the best at it, not to be bested by a hybrid mage that lacks our specialty....having said that, I think they need to find their own niche, which is what it looks like SE is trying to give 'em, and for that I say bravo SE
    (0)
    Love life, dare to dream, and LIVE ON PURPOSE!
    Also make sure to beat up any evil elvaans along the way, as we all know tarus are the ultimate race.

  8. #18
    Player Zerich's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    502
    Character
    Taruina
    World
    Siren
    Main Class
    WHM Lv 99
    You do understand that SCH has no innate MAB-trait. SCH only gets MAB-traits from the sub-job and their gear, where BLM has more native MAB potential than SCH, INCLUDING the BLM AF3 armor having bonuses for magic critical frequency and damage (something that SCH can only achieve through the earring). You're complaining over a fact that isn't true.
    Btw, BLM does get additional MAB job-traits. You also get additional tiers to the Magic Burst Bonus trait. Unless you are just blind nuking BLM with teal gear and comparing it to a single nuke to a well geared dark-arts SCH, then BLM is trumped by SCH. In all other instances, no.
    Can't forget that magic damage + with activation of "conserve MP" that BLM gets with their AF3+2 set.
    (2)
    Last edited by Zerich; 08-16-2011 at 06:54 AM.

  9. #19
    Player Rubicant82's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Windhurst
    Posts
    290
    Character
    Rubican
    World
    Carbuncle
    Main Class
    BLM Lv 99
    Quote Originally Posted by Darkwizardzin View Post
    ...Im gonna guess you never saw that blms got elemental celerity.
    LoL no.. no I did not... I'm guessing they snuck that in there while I was traveling for work so I never read up on it. ha ha ha!
    And honestly when was the last time you checked your job traits menu on the game... other then blu mage to make sure you got the right job combo LMAO!
    (0)

  10. #20
    Player Nawesemo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Bastok
    Posts
    352
    Character
    Nawesemo
    World
    Cerberus
    Main Class
    BLM Lv 99
    All I want is a shorter stun timer (at least shave 10-12 seconds off it, 15 would be ideal, 20 would be a god send).

    and MY FREAKIN ELEMENTAL SEAL TO FORCE A CRITICAL WITH ANCIENT MAGIC!!!... please!! this would make me happy.

    and as a bonus... make manawell meritable... pretty please.. even 2 min 30 sec off it would be cool.
    (0)
    In our wake will be smoke fire and burnt charred remains of those that have fell before us, We will not remember their names, as they are no more, the next challenge, the next horizon is what we strive for and Demand it be met with Ferocity, We Grin at the Possibility of death, Fear no Mob that walks Vana'diel or it's Realms, there is no tomorrow, there is only now, For pride, for honor, for Glory We are The Knights of Pegasus.

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