BST ready/sic/reward range

[bazookatooth]

I think you misunderstand me.
I'm speaking of the accuracy and attack situation of bst compared to other DD, in early endgame. Bst has a big advantage here, play around with /checkparam on your different bsts and melee. There's no way such a low built bst wins solo a D battlefield. But he's able to hit there and deal damage, what other jobs can't do with the same gear effort.

Perhaps on low level content, but anything difficult is going to require the same Skirmish or better gear for BST as it does for melee jobs. There is a thing called "(/checkparam)" in the game and this can easily be tested. You also forget that everything costs money on BST. So even if that BST hasn't spent the gil to build reforged, abjuration or skirmish gear, he's paying for that on the back end because it costs him 2k -10k+ per pet he calls and another 2k per theta or 20k per mulsum every time he heals his pet. Even on my extremely well geared bst, I've spent over 100k on a single T3 fight. So oddly enough, the BST who doesn't spend the time / money to gear the job right away just ends up paying more to actually play the job. BST isn't a job that you can half ass and be good. You are paying to be good one way or another.

[Arthos]

Perhaps on low level content, but anything difficult is going to require the same Skirmish or better gear for BST as it does for melee jobs. There is a thing called "(/checkparam)" in the game and this can easily be tested. You also forget that everything costs money on BST. So even if that BST hasn't spent the gil to build reforged, abjuration or skirmish gear, he's paying for that on the back end because it costs him 2k -10k+ per pet he calls and another 2k per theta or 20k per mulsum every time he heals his pet. Even on my extremely well geared bst, I've spent over 100k on a single T3 fight. So oddly enough, the BST who doesn't spend the time / money to gear the job right away just ends up paying more to actually play the job. BST isn't a job that you can half ass and be good. You are paying to be good one way or another.

Did you really just repeat what i said as argument against what i said?
I said EARLY ENDGAME! EEEEEAAAAARRRRLLYYYYYYYY ENDGAME!!!!!!! Got it now? Also that /checkparam..... Really... Order is Read-> Think -> Answer. Anything else blocks any discussion.

[bazookatooth]

Did you really just repeat what i said as argument against what i said?
I said EARLY ENDGAME! EEEEEAAAAARRRRLLYYYYYYYY ENDGAME!!!!!!! Got it now? Also that /checkparam..... Really... Order is Read-> Think -> Answer. Anything else blocks any discussion.

WTF is early endgame? Are you saying we should nerf a job in real endgame because when you gear it poorly, it does better at outdated content than other poorly geared jobs? In what world does that make sense? and FYI, BST pets have no access to madrigal. Other DDS do. But that doesn't even matter because Skirmish armor with acc augments is stupid easy to get. You can literally get it by standing at a book and clicking things and then upgrade it with accuracy for the value of a couple dynamis runs. You can pretty much a make a whole set in one day. There is absolutely no reason for anything to be balanced against people who don't have that.

[Arthos]

WTF is early endgame?

WTF is real endgame?

Are you saying we should nerf a job in real endgame because when you gear it poorly, it does better at outdated content than other poorly geared jobs?

I'm saying the jobs should be balanced in every stage of Endgame. It may be outdated content for you, but for a good number of players it's actual content.

In what world does that make sense?

In a balanced MMO world.

and FYI, BST pets have no access to madrigal.

Yes, that's probably the reason pet stats are so high.
They need to be, due to limited support.

Skirmish armor with acc augments is stupid easy to get.... There is absolutely no reason for anything to be balanced against people who don't have that.

Bst will still be ahead. Even with suboptimal augments.


SE did very well with Bst adjustments before that range nerf. We got good pets, and a good adjustment to the ready charges.
Also the high pets stats are a must as it is now. But they give bst a significant edge in any low buffs situation, and there are many of them. On top of that it was safe and easy to play in groups.

So the possible solution i like most is to have the player rolls and songs also on pet. To team up with other jobs easier. And get away from these "x-type job only"-burn.
The price Bst would need to pay for this are some acc/att numbers on pet.
Good news is you can also get them back easily, alone with your trusts. This opens up many new playstyles for Bst and parties in general.
If you give it now the old range back, maybe with some bonus dmg when closer to pet, it becomes a well rounded job to play. You can even engage, with a 15s timer only, but some players might enjoy it. The one who doesnt, dont need to do it, they just continue using their 10s timer.

[bazookatooth]

WTF is real endgame?

It's the most difficult / rewarding content currently available. Right now it would probably include high tier escha NMs, new sky gods, AV, etc. I don't know what early endgame means. I honestly can't think of anything that you should be doing at 99 before skirmish that is difficult enough to even care who has a higher parse. Are you talking about soloing dynamis in level 75 gear or something?

I'm saying the jobs should be balanced in every stage of Endgame. It may be outdated content for you, but for a good number of players it's actual content.

Every job has been stronger or weaker at certain points in it's progression throughout the games history. It doesn't matter as long as things become balanced once you get near level / gear caps because now more than ever, that is where players spend most of their time and fight the most difficult content. Do you honestly care if SAM outparses THF at level 81?

In a balanced MMO world.

That doesn't exist...

Bst will still be ahead. Even with suboptimal augments.

This again.... No. Other jobs can deal better damage. Survival is the only factor at this level. SAM, DNC, BLU, THF, BLM, GEO, SCH etc. blow bst out of the water damage wise. They just die too easily. That's why SE didn't touch bst damage output and instead opted to make it annoying to play. Player HP has not scaled well since 99.

So the possible solution i like most is to have the player rolls and songs also on pet. To team up with other jobs easier. And get away from these "x-type job only"-burn.
The price Bst would need to pay for this are some acc/att numbers on pet.
Good news is you can also get them back easily, alone with your trusts. This opens up many new playstyles for Bst and parties in general.
If you give it now the old range back, maybe with some bonus dmg when closer to pet, it becomes a well rounded job to play. You can even engage, with a 15s timer only, but some players might enjoy it. The one who doesnt, dont need to do it, they just continue using their 10s timer.

That would be great. I think SE is afraid of pets with crazy haste and defense though.

[Nyarlko]

While letting party buffs affect pets sounds great, I have a feeling it would require a reworking of every party buff in the game to make it work which sounds like FAR more effort than SE is willing/able to put in at this point in the game to be feasible.

A possibly simpler solution (which would "only" require a reworking of our pets) would be to have our pets stats scale off ours. This is the only method that would allow us to gear ourselves for melee w/o gimping our pets into uselessness, but would either require a reworking of a ton of gear that had stuff like Pet Acc/Atk/etc into Player Acc/Atk/etc or the understanding from the playerbase that all of that would now be only half as useful as it once was and acceptance that a good chunk of our current gear would have to be replaced.

This still doesn't address the glaring issue that has been around since day one: BST has no job abilities that are useful for self-combat. No buffs. No offensive abilities/attacks. No bonuses for whacking mobs alongside your pet... Take away the pet and all BST can do is auto-attack and weaponskill.

[HopefulNAPlayer]

While letting party buffs affect pets sounds great, I have a feeling it would require a reworking of every party buff in the game to make it work which sounds like FAR more effort than SE is willing/able to put in at this point in the game to be feasible.

A possibly simpler solution (which would "only" require a reworking of our pets) would be to have our pets stats scale off ours. This is the only method that would allow us to gear ourselves for melee w/o gimping our pets into uselessness, but would either require a reworking of a ton of gear that had stuff like Pet Acc/Atk/etc into Player Acc/Atk/etc or the understanding from the playerbase that all of that would now be only half as useful as it once was and acceptance that a good chunk of our current gear would have to be replaced.

This still doesn't address the glaring issue that has been around since day one: BST has no job abilities that are useful for self-combat. No buffs. No offensive abilities/attacks. No bonuses for whacking mobs alongside your pet... Take away the pet and all BST can do is auto-attack and weaponskill.

You are 100% correct. To add to your statement, Beastmaster shield skill caps @300 and @316 with 8 Shield Skill merits. However, our job points continue to augment the TP returned by Fencer and to make matters worse: Beastmaster has NO worthwhile shields to use.

If SE added a shield that gave Pet TP Bonus, Ready Delay-, or even Ready Distance +5 yalms, we'd be better equiped to suddenly play as a moderate-DD or an average "Front-line job"

However, as it stands today, as you said, Beastmaster can only auto-attack and perform weaponskills. That's it.

[Ambiant]

Sorry, but as a bst swapping weapons every 10 secs, I NEVER have the TP to WS, maybe once in a blue moon. Sure I can swing at the mob, but big wup, I can't really do much else on high end as I need my pet over my own stats.

Oh and I tried legion. UG SUPER large sized mobs and tiny pet command radius. Used cricket to ae the first 4 rooms. Doable but annoying as hell out of range bs with pet next to me ffs. Even worse especially when a trust provoked and yanked mob away or pet ran off to chase down something nuking it.

5th room...went.... horribly. hehe. I was doomed....

Please, give us a gift or something to increase distance. This way it benefits the veterans that spend time and effort into their job.