[dev1289] Job Adjustments

[kylani]

So..outside of THF...which other job could get TH natively, let alone TH3 at the time? If that's the nerf, it actually made sense from a balance perspective. Sorry to break it to you, it wasn't "one or two" people making mischief, it was a huge problem in the early days in popular exp spots because BSTs wanted to clear the zone out so they could have it for themselves. I can promise you they wouldn't have made that change if it truly was "one or two people" and not a large problem. People wouldn't have complained if it was just one or two people doing it every now and then. You couldn't properly exp in Crawler's Nest or Garliage Citadel basement if there were 1 or 2 bsts there because you were GUARANTEED to get a higher level aggressive monster dumped on you.

Did you even play during those days?

I played for 12 years, and that was NOT my experience. If some of the BST haters are to be believed, I think servers must be quite different.

I exp'd a lot in crawler's nest. There were so many places for BST to exp without being near parties that there was no need for contention there. Parties fought over camps like crazy though. I loved CN as BST, hated it as a partier because of other parties being such jerks competing for spots. As BST, I was asked to CLEAR trains quite often before the change. Usually, the cause of a train was not BST but parties who had an inexperienced puller who panicked or a THF decided to flee out of there for fun. I don't recall BSTs specifically doing this.

I do recall BSTs MPKing, mainly in response to people stealing their NMs at low health. I am sure some BSTs did it for fun just like some people just liked to train mobs on others for fun. I posted elsewhere about why a person who really wanted to exp as BST would NOT waste time competing with a party. It was stupid if you need mobs to charm, not to move to another area. Sure some BSTs were probably stupid, but I was in too many parties that were just as stupid about competing for a party spot. Party spots were a pain for everyone back then, less for BST than a full party. One of the reasons I loved BST. I could come and go as I pleased without drama.

I actually liked the MPK nerf because I no longer had to stop exping to go clear trains, and I could also charm a pet and despawn it so it would repop as an even match. I see nothing good about this change that doesn't let me command my pet when I'm right there fighting with it. I wonder how people would like it if they couldn't use their special abilities unless they standing within this range to a tank? Sure, melee could just run over to the tank and back. That would make their jobs much more fun! That's how I feel about this ridiculous range nerf.

[Alhanelem]

I exp'd a lot in crawler's nest. There were so many places for BST to exp without being near parties that there was no need for contention there

I think people just liked to blame BST when it wasn't always their fault. There were a lot of popular EXP camps in the crawler's nest back in the day. BST loved the place too because of all the charmable stuff in there. While BST were sometimes responsible for causing trains and wiping parties that were trying to test their limits, more often it was just a party wiping on its own and trying to avoid dying by running to the zone, which typically resulted in dozens of crawlers trained to the zone, causing anyone who entered the area to be KO'd instantly, especially if the train was from the knight crawler camps.

That being said, I did have BSTs that dumped mobs on my party on more than one occasion, sometimes causing a wipe. So, while it is usually as you said, I have seen it happen because of a BST. It was things like this that led to the possibly unfair animosity towards bst and the eventual removal of monster trains.

[kylani]

I think people just liked to blame BST when it wasn't always their fault. There were a lot of popular EXP camps in the crawler's nest back in the day. BST loved the place too because of all the charmable stuff in there. While BST were sometimes responsible for causing trains and wiping parties that were trying to test their limits, more often it was just a party wiping on its own and trying to avoid dying by running to the zone, which typically resulted in dozens of crawlers trained to the zone, causing anyone who entered the area to be KO'd instantly, especially if the train was from the knight crawler camps.

That being said, I did have BSTs that dumped mobs on my party on more than one occasion, sometimes causing a wipe. So, while it is usually as you said, I have seen it happen because of a BST. It was things like this that led to the possibly unfair animosity towards bst and the eventual removal of monster trains.

Thank you for being open minded. I'm not saying there weren't troublesome BSTs. I just don't feel like they were any worse than other jobs based on my experience.

The only reason I disliked the mpk nerf, as painful as trains could be, I used to like that when you partied near others you had to be more conscious of your surroundings, and people seemed to band together. I loved that feeling of camaraderie that you were all in the trenches together. As RDM and BLM, I really loved sleeping adds to try to help get things under control while folks pitched in to help. It was exciting in Khazam back in the good old days, lol.

I totally agree it was a good change though. It could be very frustrating to parties even with the best intentions of all around, and it was way too easy for troublemakers to grieve. The threat of jail or banning wasn't a big deterrent unfortunately, and it could be hard to tell the difference between a panicked person and an intentional griever.

[detlef]

Wait, does nobody remember the mountain of complaints about BSTs always taking 2 mobs at a time in Dynamis? Proc one, let pet finish it off while you work on the next one? People HATED that.

[bazookatooth]

Wait, does nobody remember the mountain of complaints about BSTs always taking 2 mobs at a time in Dynamis? Proc one, let pet finish it off while you work on the next one? People HATED that.

You know what could have solved ALLLLLL of these problems? Adding more monsters to the vast expanse of wasted space that is vanadiel. Instead they ruin one person's fun to give it to another person. Broken logic prevails again. YAY!

[detlef]

You know what could have solved ALLLLLL of these problems? Adding more monsters to the vast expanse of wasted space that is vanadiel. Instead they ruin one person's fun to give it to another person. Broken logic prevails again. YAY!

Well there's no arguing with that. SE could easily have increased the number of available Dynamis mobs by strengthening the Easy Prey mobs or by adjusting mob placement or by making City/Northland zones more attractive or any one of a number of reasonable solutions. I'm just pointing out that people hated BSTs who would tie up 2 mobs in a competitive situation.

[bazookatooth]

Well there's no arguing with that. SE could easily have increased the number of available Dynamis mobs by strengthening the Easy Prey mobs or by adjusting mob placement or by making City/Northland zones more attractive or any one of a number of reasonable solutions. I'm just pointing out that people hated BSTs who would tie up 2 mobs in a competitive situation.

The funny part was when they'd actually give up and leave the camps that BST were at and then find some PLD or THF and a BRD mule aeolean edging 20 mobs at a time in some dark corner of the map and they wouldn't complain at all about it. People haz teh dumbz some times.

[Olor]

Wait, does nobody remember the mountain of complaints about BSTs always taking 2 mobs at a time in Dynamis? Proc one, let pet finish it off while you work on the next one? People HATED that.

Sorry who doesn't work on more than one mob at a time in dynamis? It's not even like people do it on purpose - the things link.

[Allestra]

Slippery slope nerfing the bst (or any job imo) considering we will be paying for possibly NO new content after November......se you may want to resist the urge to nerf and turn off players too much.

I think the range change is horrible ,tacky and just petty.

imho its time to lighten up, open up, finally relaxxxxx and offer as much enjoyment to keep people paying for the ability to replay content only , not the opposite.

O.o

[detlef]

The funny part was when they'd actually give up and leave the camps that BST were at and then find some PLD or THF and a BRD mule aeolean edging 20 mobs at a time in some dark corner of the map and they wouldn't complain at all about it. People haz teh dumbz some times.

The thing about AEing was that if you were doing WS procs you then weren't competing with other farmers during JA time so there wasn't really any harm done here. And that was nerfed pretty quickly I believe.

Sorry who doesn't work on more than one mob at a time in dynamis? It's not even like people do it on purpose - the things link.

My statement was more about how Dynamis used to be. It's one thing to be working on one mob while the others are yellow and only have initial aggro hate. But it's another thing for your pet to be whittling down a proc'd mob while you were trying to proc the next mob. It's just an example of how Dynamis was before SE reduced Mythic difficulty, back when a lot of Relics were still desirable.