[dev1289] Job Adjustments

[Jile]

Jile, this is the problem: you're arguing with people who don't play BST, don't understand how it works, and think this is all about damage output.

You're right, I know. I keep hoping that throwing logic out enough times will help.

[Secondplanet]

Jile, this is the problem: you're arguing with people who don't play BST, don't understand how it works, and think this is all about damage output.

i've played bst and it wasn't my cup of tea, i understand fully well its not about damage output but you're a heavy armor class job that wants to be backline job for safety, why doesn't all other DD jobs start arguing about how fast they die from AoE's like everyone else. The game has become aimed at range jobs doing damage at a safe distance while the only job (pld) that has the -pdt -mdt is the only one able to take the damage. This argument has long since lost its sympathy from players as you're not the only ones whos jobs have become useless to the high artificial difficulty that SE has forced into the game.

[bazookatooth]

i've played bst and it wasn't my cup of tea, i understand fully well its not about damage output but you're a heavy armor class job that wants to be backline job for safety, why doesn't all other DD jobs start arguing about how fast they die from AoE's like everyone else. The game has become aimed at range jobs doing damage at a safe distance while the only job (pld) that has the -pdt -mdt is the only one able to take the damage. This argument has long since lost its sympathy from players as you're not the only ones whos jobs have become useless to the high artificial difficulty that SE has forced into the game.

I don't think it has lost sympathy. I think most people would rather see other DD jobs be more useful than see this job be less useful. Messing with BST doesn't fix anyone's problems and most people are smart enough to see that.

[Jile]

i've played bst and it wasn't my cup of tea

I find it ironic then that you play a job that is setup to play precisely how we used to be although you do have an endless supply of pets tied to an almost non-existent recast timer vs our call-pet timers and you can kite and run away letting your pet auto-attack while never establishing additional enmity yourself, when needed, not to mention your damage per second for a properly geared SMN matches and can surpass BST dps yet you keep advocating negativity toward BST.

Pot calling the kettle black.

BST is a ranged-dmg job, like SMN. We are not geared to be effective when our pets are effective, we have no business being near the mob when we're having our pets hit unless SE redesigns our gear to match this new expectation of BST contributing toward a fight rather than wasting everyone's time being an MP sink just to be engaged and add our sub-par melee dmg in, so we can be close enough to our pet's to contribute dmg.

I feel like no matter how many times we repeat ourselves, you're not going to understand why this isn't about us trying to get-one-over on the system, we have been working within the confines of the design of the system since day one - now that SE adjusts our entire gameplay, without adjusting our gear to match this new expectation, the job is supremely less effective and absolutely unwelcome by the people SE should be listening to, the people 'paying' to play BST for the last decade.

[Zeargi]

i've played bst and it wasn't my cup of tea, i understand fully well its not about damage output but you're a heavy armor class job that wants to be backline job for safety, why doesn't all other DD jobs start arguing about how fast they die from AoE's like everyone else. The game has become aimed at range jobs doing damage at a safe distance while the only job (pld) that has the -pdt -mdt is the only one able to take the damage. This argument has long since lost its sympathy from players as you're not the only ones whos jobs have become useless to the high artificial difficulty that SE has forced into the game.

Just gonna chime in. BST doesn't wear heavy armor. It's a Medium Class, the same as THF, MNK or DNC.

Again, I can't seem to stress this enough, BST isn't the only one playing it safe. SAM does and is STILL doing, and they have better overall Job Traits than BST. 85% of BSTs' Job Traits are Killer Traits or Pet Related ones. Resist Amnesia, Resist Slow, and Fencer, Those are the things that BST has to work with. Outside of trash mobs in Delve, you aren't going to use MOST of the Killer Skills. and Fencer is useless because there aren't any shields the really compliment BST and with an E rank, the shield blocking rate is crap. Beatific Shield +1, Deliverance +1, Evalach +1, Forfend +1... THESE are the only 119 Shields that BST can use. -25% MDT, 2x PDT-4%, and a DT-4%... If you want to get on the lower end, the Matamata Shield gives a -8% PDT. It's not fair to penalize the job for the lack of gear, abilities, and traits other jobs get.

THF gets Triple Attack, Sneak Attack, Bully, Feint
MNK gets Counter, Martial Arts, Kick Attack, Formless Strike
DNC has Flourishes and No Step Rising

This is about on par with people inviting SMNs back in the day to be gimped healers for parties. BST has ALWAYS been about playing the distances and only fighting when it needs to, it's not some surprise last minute thing that just now started showing up. Grab a pet, Leave it when it's about to die, tame and grab the next one, sic/snarl, Repeat.

I will keep saying it over and over: It's not the job, it's the content. Give BSTs better Gear, JA, and Traits to keep them alive and truly functional as a DD Class and let it so their pets can equally function. SMN gets away with focusing on their Pet, and that works for a Mage job, but that's not the same for BST.

[Shinun]

Just gonna chime in. BST doesn't wear heavy armor. It's a Medium Class, the same as THF, MNK or DNC.

Again, I can't seem to stress this enough, BST isn't the only one playing it safe. SAM does and is STILL doing, and they have better overall Job Traits than BST. 85% of BSTs' Job Traits are Killer Traits or Pet Related ones. Resist Amnesia, Resist Slow, and Fencer, Those are the things that BST has to work with. Outside of trash mobs in Delve, you aren't going to use MOST of the Killer Skills. and Fencer is useless because these aren't an shields the really compliment BST and with an E rank, the shield blocking rate is crap. Beatific Shield +1, Deliverance +1, Evalach +1, Forfend +1... THESE are the only 119 Shields that BST can use. -25% MDT, 2x PDT-4%, and a DT-4%... If you want to get on the lower end, the Matamata Shield gives a -8% PDT. It's not fair to penalize the job for the lack of gear, abilities, and traits other jobs get.

THF gets Triple Attack, Sneak Attack, Bully, Feint
MNK gets Counter, Martial Arts, Kick Attack, Formless Strike
DNC has Flourishes and No Step Rising

This is about on par with people inviting SMNs back in the day to be gimped healers for parties. BST has ALWAYS been about playing the distances and only fighting when it needs to, it's not some surprise last minute thing that just now started showing up. Grab a pet, Leave it when it's about to die, tame and grab the next one, sic/snarl, Repeat.

I will keep saying it over and over: It's not the job, it's the content. Give BSTs better Gear, JA, and Traits to keep them alive and truly functional as a DD Class and let it so their pets can equally function. SMN gets away with focusing on their Pet, and that works for a Mage job, but that's not the same for BST.

BST is heavy armor class just look at Tartarus Platemail as an example

[Zeargi]

BST is heavy armor class just look at Tartarus Platemail as an example

1 armor does not a heavy make. The heavy classes are: PLD, DRK, SAM, DRG, WAR

While BST does get a few 'heavy armors', more of it's armor sets come from the Medium classes. You can use Dynamis as an example as well, The ones listed above are proc.ed by WS because they have high HP and DEF. While MNK, BST, THF, RNG, etc are JAs :3

[Jopa-Sopa]

It's sort of in-between. BST has been grouped with heavy (both Delve sets, lol Ebon sets) and medium (Salvage, add-on final rewards). With the sphere bodies, it gets both the heavy and medium ones, much like how PUP gets medium and light sphere bodies.

If we had to list the jobs by armor class it would probably look something like
WAR/PLD/DRK
DRG
SAM
BST
NIN
THF/RNG/COR/DNC/RUN
MNK
BLU
PUP
RDM
BRD
WHM/BLM/SMN/SCH/GEO

Good point about the Dynamis procs. From what I can tell, they generally considered BST heavy during original/RotZ era (Adaberk), then medium in CoP through Lv99, and now they're more often heavy in iLv era.

[bazookatooth]

This is a moot point as a large amount of damage reduction comes from gear, abilities and / or spells that BST will not be using a large portion of the time (if at all) due to the need to keep the pet alive and perform ready moves.

[Olor]

BST is a ranged-dmg job, like SMN. We are not geared to be effective when our pets are effective, we have no business being near the mob when we're having our pets hit unless SE redesigns our gear to match this new expectation of BST contributing toward a fight rather than wasting everyone's time being an MP sink just to be engaged and add our sub-par melee dmg in, so we can be close enough to our pet's to contribute dmg.

I feel like no matter how many times we repeat ourselves, you're not going to understand why this isn't about us trying to get-one-over on the system, we have been working within the confines of the design of the system since day one - now that SE adjusts our entire gameplay, without adjusting our gear to match this new expectation, the job is supremely less effective and absolutely unwelcome by the people SE should be listening to, the people 'paying' to play BST for the last decade.

Seriously... who cares what the armor LOOKS LIKE. It might as well be a wet paper bag for all the difference it makes to actual damage taken.