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  1. #1
    Player Jile's Avatar
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    Mar 2011
    Posts
    390

    Adjust Guttler - New BST gear for master and pet to be engaged on EG NM's

    Now that SE has changed their entire stance on BST and we're now front line for the first time since BST's creation..... I was hoping this would be a good time to adjust Guttler and allow BST to remove it from storage and equip it for once.

    Current stats:
    DPS: 3107 DMG:145 Delay:280 Attack+40 Axe skill +242 Parrying skill +242 Magic Accuracy skill +215 "Onslaught" Additional effect: "Choke"
    LV 99 BST

    Suggested stats:
    DMG:150 Delay:276 Attack+100 Damage taken -20% Axe skill +242 Parrying skill +242 Magic Accuracy skill +215 "Onslaught" Additional effect: "Choke"
    Pet: Damage taken -20% ACC+20% Ready-5

    Okay I know these stats wont be approved but regardless of where its placed, now that BST is a 'front line job' according to you SE, how do you intend on us surviving and having our pet still hit a mob, current gear doesn't allow for us to gear for master and pet to both be engaged and useful at the same time vs EG NM's. So now that we're pushed into this, please share with us what new amazing gear or stat changes are coming or came with this update that allow us not to be told go solo for the next 10 years? I've solo'd quite enough over the last decade thank you very much, I'd like to keep getting invites now and then for relevant content on BST.

    Please don't turn this thread into another BST bashing thread, please keep on topic if someone posts something lets make it focused on 'what changes will be needed in order for BST not to be MP sink and remain useful as a new-front-line-job'.
    (7)

  2. #2
    Player
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Posts
    70
    They said something about "midrange" for BST. I doubt the new range will be much less than 15' then.
    You are right, BST can't melee on higher content now and maybe that will change anytime in future, but right now the range adjustment is just a cheap way to balance it into more risk.
    So you are doing the same as before, standing at the side, but now you can avoid less AoE moves.

    It may have been necessary or not for job wide balance, but it's a poor job design now, standing in melee range without engaging seems studid. So many players will switch to other jobs. Aim reached.

    P.S. I like your Guttler, I would half the pet stats for balance, therefore add some ACC for master.
    (4)

  3. #3
    Player Secondplanet's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    San D'Oria
    Posts
    398
    Character
    Mortificator
    World
    Asura
    Main Class
    SMN Lv 99
    I know you said to keep things on track but Dragoons have had to choose between wyvern stats and their own with accessories. The Dragoon's wyvern can't keep up with endgame content from the constant spam of AoE's and they have been a frontline job since day one. While i do feel sorry for BST they will have to choose between stats for them and their pets as all pet jobs do now.

    I think it would be fair though to maybe give them some job traits to make up for it though.
    (0)

  4. #4
    Player Kensagaku's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    652
    Character
    Zeich
    World
    Asura
    Main Class
    BST Lv 99
    I disagree on the bit about wyvern stats. Generally, the wyvern can hit at a moderate rate with normal gear after being leveled up, and they're fairly durable of late. So we can scratch DRG off of the list for having to "make separate sets" for your pet aside from different breath sets.

    As for the other jobs that have to "pick between master and pet," neither of them have to go into melee range and risk death by AoE. PUP is not required to (though that mileage may vary depending on the time limit on what you're soloing), and they additionally have many of their extra stats built in via attachments and maneuvers. SMN is not required to; their essential stats (pet stats, refresh, and perp cost) overlap quite easily, and since they don't have to worry about themselves, they can just sit in the backlines in their pet gear much like BST was doing before.

    So really, this is just a straight up nerf. There's nothing putting it "in line with other pet jobs," because it now became the only pure pet job (I don't consider DRG a "pure" pet job, more a melee with pet support) that has to be at risk and has to juggle a combination of gear for two separate sets if they want to be useful at all. You switch any of your pet DT pieces to master DT so you can safely run in, and suddenly your pet's damage taken jumps up noticeably. You focus on your pet's attack/accuracy for a Ready move and suddenly your own DT is gone, making you take extra damage. BST has gone from being a safe sideliner to being not worth the constant MP sponging, which is poor design, imo. I feel bad for those who have wasted billions of gil on the best augments; I only completed about half of the sets I wanted and I still cringe at all the gil I've spent on what's going to be a lot more risky to use now that the range adjustments have been made.

    If SE plans to make this viable, we need hybrid sets that focus on both master and pet together. If there's PDT or DT for the master, then that same stat needs to be reflected on the pet. If there's accuracy or attack for the master, that same stat needs to be reflected on the pet. Unless we have gear that affects both positively, then putting BST as a frontliner is just going to lead to a mass of player deaths or an insane drop in DPS when a pet dies, because pretending to be a Dual-Wielding WAR doesn't cut it when it comes to BST meleeing. We're not all -that- strong in the frontline.

    One other possibility for this is to have the BST share its stats with its pet. The way pet food works comes to mind, in which both the master and the pet get a buff from it, though it's increased noticeably for the pet. With gear, perhaps that can be reversed; say we look at the Yaoyotl Helm, which gives 25 Attack and Acc, among other things. Perhaps give BST a job trait that allows them to pass some of the stats (let's say something like 50% of them, so 12 Attack/Accuracy) they get from gear to their pet, requiring less mixing and matching to buff up both. It would still require some hybridization (since in the example above, you'd only grant up to 25% PDT/MDT/DT from gear, requiring more for your pet to tank more effectively), but I think this would make it at least somewhat more tolerable when you can focus on your master's melee while still buffing the pet considerably. For Ready moves, you'd still swap to pet: Acc/Atk/DA/TP Bonus gear (or MAB/Macc, depending), but given how fast they go off, that'd just be a matter of timing it out to avoid being caught out of DT gear and the like. Between foods that boost stats and shared stats with the master, BST pets would still be somewhat viable even with the master being forced to melee in the front line.

    Edit: Oh, and add it so that buffs hit pets. If that's the case, then we'll be completely 100% viable, even as a frontliner. Protect/Shell/Songs/GEO spells will all make it far more reasonable to hybridize the job.
    (5)
    Last edited by Kensagaku; 09-10-2015 at 11:17 PM.
    [Kensagaku - formerly of Kujata] - http://www.ffxiah.com/player/Valefor/Kensagaku

  5. #5
    Player bazookatooth's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2015
    Posts
    364
    Character
    Bazookatooth
    World
    Asura
    Main Class
    THF Lv 1
    I just don't see bst melee being viable really unless they give bst an iLvl ready-5 axe and a change how dt- works for the pet/master. I don't think SE will do that. I think this was SE's way of telling beast masters to piss off. Even if they allowed the master to rock a full dt- set while maintaining a full pet dt- set and a ready - axe, it still makes most end game stuff too risky for it to be worth while to bring a bst. They've more or less decided that they don't want people to ever be allowed to use bst as their regular event job again.
    (2)

  6. #6
    Player Olor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    2,134
    Yeah SE basically just told BST players to unsub because we're never going to be invited to anything again. BST won't even be useful for soloing outdated content like abyssea anymore after this.
    (5)
    http://photobucket.com/gallery/http://s19.photobucket.com/user/soulchld4/media/Olorinus-Signature.jpg.html

  7. #7
    Player Jile's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    390
    Quote Originally Posted by Olor View Post
    Yeah SE basically just told BST players to unsub because we're never going to be invited to anything again.
    Sadly, I agree. I really hope SE considers they're going to be forcing BST to quit EG content for all intents and purposes.

    I'd much rather see other jobs get a boost rather than see ANY job get a nerf, there's simply no point to it at this stage of the game to completely remove any job from usability from relevant content. BST has spent it's entire existence primarily forced to solo, this makes that much less realistic.

    BST isn't just a backline job, its entire play-style since the beginning has required us to be at a distance. Charm a pet, send it, run out of range of hearing music, cure/buff, once pet dies get another rinse/repeat. Now SE wants us 'in the fray'. It's like telling a COR or BRD, you no longer can run around to do rolls or songs, you have to stand in one place the entire time and people run to you if they want buffs - I mean its that fundamentally askew.

    'In the fray' play-style wont work for anything charmed, so lets start by removing that job ability and give us an ability similar to focus and another like defender which apply to both master and pet simultaneously. That would be a starting ground.

    Additionally, we need hybrid gear since we're expected to be in 'danger', we need a PDT set that applies to pet/master, which has ACC and ATK on it effecting both pet and master. SE, seriously, unless you intend to with one "small" change, negate the ability to use BST in any serious content, major changes will need to be made due to this one "small" change.
    (7)
    Last edited by Jile; 09-11-2015 at 09:19 AM.

  8. #8
    Player Catmato's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    972
    Quote Originally Posted by Olor View Post
    Yeah SE basically just told BST players to unsub because we're never going to be invited to anything again. BST won't even be useful for soloing outdated content like abyssea anymore after this.
    So it'll be like 2002 - 2014 all over again?
    (2)

  9. #9
    Player kylani's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Posts
    125
    Character
    Kyrai
    World
    Fenrir
    Main Class
    RDM Lv 99
    Quote Originally Posted by Catmato View Post
    So it'll be like 2002 - 2014 all over again?
    Or folks who enjoy BST give up as SE and many of the player base want. I think of it as SE helping with closure and getting me away from SE games.
    (2)

  10. #10
    Player Olor's Avatar
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    Mar 2011
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    2,134
    Quote Originally Posted by Catmato View Post
    So it'll be like 2002 - 2014 all over again?
    Except we won't even be able to solo anymore.

    (7)
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