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  1. #11
    Player Kensagaku's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    652
    Character
    Kensagaku
    World
    Valefor
    Main Class
    DRG Lv 99
    Eh, unless they add a large handful of shields with a wide variety of stats on them to replace things like Pet: Attack, Pet: TP Bonus, Attack and/or acc for the master, etc, I would prefer to stay dual-wielding. Shields have always been fairly negligible for anything that's not a PLD (though I'll admit I can't think of ever seeing a sword-and-board WAR, so there's a possibility) in reducing or mitigating damage, and while it would open up Fencer options, I feel like that would cripple too much of both the master and pet's DPS. Believe me, I'd love to sub something like /WHM for Reraise, backup cures, stoneskin, etc if I have to be on the backline, or something like /WAR on the frontline, but I feel that the loss of the second axe with all the various weapon bonuses is too much. But unless you can replace Skirmish options, Charmer's Merlin, Kerecatl, etc, it's just going to be a no-go. A second axe just offers us way too much.
    (0)
    [Kensagaku - formerly of Kujata] - http://www.ffxiah.com/player/Valefor/Kensagaku

  2. #12
    Player
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Posts
    1,542
    How is a shield crippling master dps anymore than Charmers is though?

    And for the whole wide variety... I suppose yes if you wanted to use it for every possibly situation that might be true. But it could instead just be an option for certain situations. Like when you don't need a full acc set on master/pet bam use shield. The not having to switch weapons and lose tp counters the lose of attack speed. The less offensive stats from dual wielding is countered by fencer. The little bit of pet attack can be countered by even more pet att /cor which would also counter the small gains from tp bonus. Alternatively you could counter some of the losses from another axe with other rolls or abilities from other subjobs
    (2)

  3. #13
    Player bazookatooth's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2015
    Posts
    364
    Quote Originally Posted by dasva View Post
    How is a shield crippling master dps anymore than Charmers is though?
    Presumably if you are on the front line, you are not swapping weapons because if you were, it would be pointless to be on the front line. So using a shield over charmers would increase the delay between ready moves by 50%. There's very little chance of you making up for that by using an axe or shield with better stats for the master. That of course assumes you are meleeing. If you aren't meleeing, then the stats being on a shield would allow you to use different subs, which would be nice, but still wouldn't compensate for the loss of stats available on current axes. Who knows, they might add shields with Pet: DT- 4%, TP Bonus +200, Attack +20 and a bunch of DT- / stat vomit for the master, but I wouldn't hold my breathe.

    Quote Originally Posted by dasva View Post
    But it could instead just be an option for certain situations. Like when you don't need a full acc set on master/pet bam use shield.
    Sounds like a pretty niche situation to ask the devs to update the game and add a bunch of new items for. Still better off with the ready delay- of charmers and an attack / tp bonus axe.

    Quote Originally Posted by dasva View Post
    The not having to switch weapons and lose tp counters the lose of attack speed.
    I want to switch weapons. Even if they give me an iLvl ready delay -axe, I'm still going to swap it out if it doesn't have Pet: MAB/MACC /ACC/ATT TP bonus, DT- etc. and some sort of ACC / DT- for the master as well. It would have to have pretty huge stats that aren't realistic in order to compensate for all the things we can do by swapping weapons.


    Quote Originally Posted by dasva View Post
    The little bit of pet attack can be countered by even more pet att /cor which would also counter the small gains from tp bonus. Alternatively you could counter some of the losses from another axe with other rolls or abilities from other subjobs
    You are not gonna compensate for the loss of dual wield with a single /cor roll and cor sub doesn't really offer anything else. Any other single hand sub is going to offer nothing to the pet at all to compensate besides what? Dia? Trusts will cast that.
    (0)

  4. #14
    Community Rep Grekumah's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2014
    Posts
    349
    Considering the information that was mentioned during Freshly Picked Vana'diel 20, we understand the desire to equip a shield; however, there are no plans to add a shield with the requested stats for beastmaster at this time.

    Instead of thinking of ways to combine defensive capabilities (and making use of the Fencer job trait) with reduction to the recast time for Ready, we would like players to devise ways to adapt and handle various situations. For example, electing to maintain a low recast time for Ready while covering the defensive side with positioning, or focusing on defense while slightly sacrificing the Ready recast time.
    (2)
    Colby "Grekumah" Casaccia - Community Team

  5. #15
    Player bazookatooth's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2015
    Posts
    364
    Quote Originally Posted by Grekumah View Post
    Considering the information that was mentioned during Freshly Picked Vana'diel 20, we understand the desire to equip a shield; however, there are no plans to add a shield with the requested stats for beastmaster at this time.

    Instead of thinking of ways to combine defensive capabilities (and making use of the Fencer job trait) with reduction to the recast time for Ready, we would like players to devise ways to adapt and handle various situations. For example, electing to maintain a low recast time for Ready while covering the defensive side with positioning, or focusing on defense while slightly sacrificing the Ready recast time.
    There is no "slightly sacrificing Ready recast time...". Removal of any piece of ready recast gear is a 33% drop in Damage output.

    33%!


    That would probably be the biggest nerf any job has ever taken if we were forced to do that. That's like telling Samurais that they have to use a non iLevel weapon to survive a fight.

    And your proposed change to ready use distance will just cause everyone to use summoner and RNG in place of BST (which they already do in many cases).
    (10)
    Last edited by bazookatooth; 08-19-2015 at 04:21 AM.

  6. #16
    Player Ulth's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Posts
    578
    Character
    Andrewviii
    World
    Valefor
    Main Class
    THF Lv 99
    In March they lowered the ftp of rudra's storm from 19.5 at 3000 TP to 13, aka a 33% nerf. Here it isn't so cut and dry because they expect the master to make up some of the damage. Could they make up 33% of ready move damage now? No clue. If they could it would probably require the new HQs abjuration armors.
    (0)

  7. #17
    Player bazookatooth's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2015
    Posts
    364
    Quote Originally Posted by Ulth View Post
    In March they lowered the ftp of rudra's storm from 19.5 at 3000 TP to 13, aka a 33% nerf. Here it isn't so cut and dry because they expect the master to make up some of the damage. Could they make up 33% of ready move damage now? No clue. If they could it would probably require the new HQs abjuration armors.
    Well, let's see... thief doesn't WS at 3,000 tp every time even when that was a thing. Generally only when SA/TA are up. So not a straight 33% there. And correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't it still more efficient to WS at around 2,000 TP even before the nerf. Not to mention, that nerf didn't affect all of thief's weapon skills across the board. And last I checked, THF does almost half of it's damage in straight melee attacks anyways. Where as with bst pets, auto attack accounts for like ??? maybe 5%-10%?

    FWIW. I was just as vocal about the THF nerf. I thought it was a terrible idea too. None of these nerfs address the real problem which is that anything that lives more that 30 seconds kills everyone in range.
    (1)

  8. #18
    Player Ulth's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Posts
    578
    Character
    Andrewviii
    World
    Valefor
    Main Class
    THF Lv 99
    At 2000 TP it was a 32% nerf, and thf does not deal anywhere close to half it's damage in white damage. If it did Mandau wouldn't be an overpriced letter opener. And it pretty much did affect every thf weapon skill across the board. Mandalic stab, Mercy storke, and Shark bite all got nerfed as well, which were already pretty far behind Rudra's.

    Anyway that wasn't my point I was just establishing a pattern. SE has no problem taking away 1/3 of a jobs damage for being popular. Smn is ahead of bst now, and dnc and blu were ahead of thf back then. Only bst and thf are popular jobs and smn, dnc, and blu are not as much. Rng and cor might have also been on the chopping block if most rng weren't left overs from the pld decoy shot bandwagon and awful at the job, and cor isn't popular because most people only see it for rolls instead of having some of the best elemental weaponskills in the game.

    But yeah the real culprit here is survivability. I personally think it has to do with how little hp players have. Basically to survive on the front lines the whm has to keep the DDs capped off with cureskin because AoEs can kill you from yellow.
    (1)

  9. #19
    Player JeanPaul's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Posts
    27
    Character
    Jeanpaul
    World
    Sylph
    Main Class
    RUN Lv 99
    Considering a BST with maximum possible bonuses can get Ready down to 10 seconds per charge, I can't see why it would be reasonable to give them any more unless there's a hard cap established. If you want to stay safe from aoes, do whatever every other job does: Utsusemi, damage reduction gear, support from other party members, etc. You could complain "oh, there's not enough gear that provides protection for master and pet", but that's not to say that there won't be such gear added in the future, like ya know, when they actually implement this range adjustment.
    (1)

  10. #20
    Player Ataraxia's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Posts
    146
    Character
    Angelicsmile
    World
    Odin
    Main Class
    DNC Lv 99
    Quote Originally Posted by Grekumah View Post
    Considering the information that was mentioned during Freshly Picked Vana'diel 20, we understand the desire to equip a shield; however, there are no plans to add a shield with the requested stats for beastmaster at this time.

    Instead of thinking of ways to combine defensive capabilities (and making use of the Fencer job trait) with reduction to the recast time for Ready, we would like players to devise ways to adapt and handle various situations. For example, electing to maintain a low recast time for Ready while covering the defensive side with positioning, or focusing on defense while slightly sacrificing the Ready recast time.
    Grekumah you can easily fix this by placing a cap for sic/ready base on equipment only. If you give sic/ready -10 to bst empyrean gloves 119 or empyrean helm 119 or added to a new equipment in future update than player would no longer need to use lv. 90 axe Charmer's Merlin and Lv. 75 legs Desultor Tassets. This will give player the option to use shield if they want to. However, they would be sacrificing Pet accuracy 28 and attack 28 from Lv. 119 Axe Kerehcatl if they aren't dual wielding which is a small price to pay for being defensive.

    If there was a bonus to pet if a player use shield like small Pet TP bonus, increase in pet accuracy and attack, pet damage taken -10% or enhance pet regen effect from gear and reward than maybe we see a lot of Bst using shield over dual wielding. =)
    (3)

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