Healing enmity is currently ridiculous

[Fynlar]

I don't know what compelled you guys to not address this in the March patch (well, more like it was addressed, via complete inaction) but unless white mages are supposed to be tanks or something I really think this is something that needs looking in to.

At least, I'm pretty sure I'm not supposed to be tanking nearly every sort of semi-serious fight I've been doing on my WHM lately.

[Tidis]

Are you healing in -50 enmity or close? Are your DDs /war, in which case can open with a Provoke? Simply put SE changed it so melee damage has much reduced enmity generating capabilities, which considering how easy it was to cap hate in a zerg situation was an understandable change.

Generally speaking, once DDs start WSing you shouldn't really have issues with pulling hate just curing.

[Fynlar]

Are you healing in -50 enmity or close?

Not without severely gimping myself. Also, friends I've talked to who do have actual -enmity sets say they don't even notice any difference with them, which doesn't surprise me considering how much more threat healing seems to pull nowadays (compared to everything else, that is)

Simply put SE changed it so melee damage has much reduced enmity generating capabilities,

I am aware of this. My beef is about how they didn't do jack to healing enmity.

Generally speaking, once DDs start WSing you shouldn't really have issues with pulling hate just curing.

This has not been the case for me at all. I'm talking about tanking the *entire* fight (unless I die, which kinda happens a lot)

Oh, and what's even worse? Sometimes after I die (while being the target of the mob, meaning I should lose all of my threat, right?) and getting back into the fight, I often find myself just immediately pulling hate (and dying again) with a couple Cure 3s. This is after the fight has been going on for a while and everyone else fighting it should have already had well enough time to establish a threat level more than a couple of weak Cures, which just tells me that whatever threat everyone else is generating is merely quickly dissipating, possibly from taking the crazy amounts of damage that I'm supposed to be healing through, if I only could.

If nobody else can see anything seriously wrong with this picture, well, I don't know what to tell you.

Whatever they did to "fix" DD threat though, they went way overboard (as has been the case with many other things in this game's history, so I don't know why I'm all that surprised) and now the problem just lies with healers instead. Trade in one problem, replace with another.

[jbtexan]

i have to agree, when SE put this patch in they did something that really needs to be undone. before the patch, a tojil run was easy. now, 2 mnk/war cant keep hate off whm while spamming provoke and ws. i have seen this many times since march and the difference (pre patch vs post patch) is very obvious. when doing high tier battlefields, whm pulls hate from a pld spamming flash and provoke with 2 rngs feeding him hate with decoy shot with a couple of cures. emnity is broken, and needs to be fixed IMO.

[Tidis]

I hate to be critical of these DDs+PLD you play with but I have only ever seen WHMs pull hate on a small amount of pure melee damage and if a PLD is spamming voke and flash a WHM should never pull hate by just curing, the VE generated by those 2 abilities is far more potent than any cures a WHM can throw out.

So I again go back to suggesting on making a -50 enmity set for WHM, yes it will gimp your optimal cure set but your optimal cure set is getting you hate apparently, it's the same as DDs making a PDT-TP hybrid set, gimps their damage but helps them survive.

So is it broken? I dual boxed Achuka PLD+WHM last week and my WHM alt never pulled hate, not during Lahar, not after full dispel, never, the only time I ever seem to lose hate is when I purely melee but that comes back to not using JAs/WS.

[Fynlar]

the VE generated by those 2 abilities is far more potent than any cures a WHM can throw out.

If the PLD is the only person you have to cure, maybe.

If you have a rest of the frontline to manage too? Absolutely not.

So I again go back to suggesting on making a -50 enmity set for WHM, yes it will gimp your optimal cure set but your optimal cure set is getting you hate apparently, it's the same as DDs making a PDT-TP hybrid set, gimps their damage but helps them survive.

Again, I'm hearing even the healers with enmity sets are still pulling threat regularly, so, until I can get some actual confirmation that this actually works, I'm not really inclined to bother.

If anything, the gear set I'm more inclined to try to make is more PDT stuff for *myself* because I at least know that when I inevitably pull hate, that can at least help me survive.

Still, the mere fact that I have to go into fights now as a healer fully expecting to pull hate and having to tank means something is still wrong with the current system.

[Tidis]

What situations are you always pulling hate? Because unlike you I'm seeing WHMs tanking none of the time, I will be fair and say I haven't done a whole lot of group activity lately but in a Morimar Delve run we had 2 THFs and a MNK, unconventional set up but we won, did that 4 times and the WHM never pulled hate, in my earlier Achuka example my WHM alt was regularly curing trusts as they were in AoE range and never pulled hate.

[Ulth]

Are you doing any self cures on pld? Because that is a great way for pld to keep hate. We have been telling this to the plds in our ls since the update, and that they really need to put together a self cure set. As for your set up 2 thfs and a mnk, yeah I can imagine the mnk keeping hate in that situation. What with the thfs putting around half their ws damage hate on the mnk. Technically speaking this update has been really nice to thf since we have some enmity control. Trick attack lets us focus hate on just 1 DD, and if shit does hit the fan we can run to the whm and use Collaborator when they pull hate. Still annoying that we can't be proactive with Collaborator because of the low range. I guess you could tell the whm to run in every minute for a collaborator, but that seems dangerous. But anyway while I like being thf at every event, I doubt everyone on ffxi feels that way. So I'm on board with a change to healing enmity.

[dasva]

The reason they didn't change healing is because tanks had plenty of tools to keep hate and they want tanks to actually matter so were hoping to make it hard for melees to tank but not for tanks. And they succeeded. Since the update both my run and my pld have yet to lose hate for any significant times outside of reset moves (occasionally will start to head for someone if I'm not paying attention but can flash it right back). I don't even use provoke as I usually /run for pld and /sam for run. It's to the point where I on after the first minute or 2 on an nm after I've established some enmity I'll sometimes take quick afks and end up mostly just waiting to lose hate to use enmity moves or trying to actually DD on pld lol. Even reset moves haven't been that bad to the point where I'd stop trying to avoid some of the avoidable ones while dual boxing (like blink of peril). Also tanked as DDs for various nms too. Only time whms seem to consistently was when they were spamming curagas... which they should be pulling hate if they do that and is more a sign of your dds need some dt sets or you need to re-evaluate how you are fighting. And if you have a pld or run they need to start mitigating more of their dmg/enmity loss and gaining more (and you might want to buff them so they can)

[Fynlar]

What situations are you always pulling hate?

Virtually every Delve NM / hard mode BCNM I have fought since the patch. Especially the MBs.

The reason they didn't change healing is because tanks had plenty of tools to keep hate and they want tanks to actually matter so were hoping to make it hard for melees to tank but not for tanks.

Again, I know the reason they made this change. But it was half baked, and now the problem just lies with the healers instead of the DDs. Nothing is really fixed, in my opinion. If anything, the problem is WORSE now because it's more annoying for a mage to be pulling aggro than a frontline DD because that usually means a moving mob. Not to mention the fact that, y'know, a DD getting killed usually isn't a big deal. A healer getting killed often is.

Don't forget also that this enmity reduction on damage has also made it harder for *tanks* to build threat, too, so it's not like they were only buffed with those enmity+ spells/JAs and whatnot.